Mark Driscoll.

Well, that should be enough fire up this thread. Look, I think the problem is that Mark Driscoll’s church is called Mars Hill. That’s probably it. GBA. (Sex.)

What amuses me about this and this and this is the word ‘demand’ in the first link. Here’s the quote:

Because Driscoll is causing harm, I and Cathy Mickels and Deborah Dombrowski and any other women who would like to join us, are speaking out. I am demanding a response from men like Dr. Erwin Lutzer who has refused to come out against this and who will be speaking with Driscoll at an upcoming conference. You can reach Dr. Lutzer through his assistant named Lori at Moody Church. The number is [removed] or [removed]. Here is a list of speakers who will be further legitimizing instead of rebuking Mr. Driscoll. [My edits & emphasis]

Ladies, ladies, ladies. You ‘demand‘ a response? Seriously. On what grounds? (Hint, you don’t have to go to the ‘conference’.) At what point has Dr Erwin Lutzer suggested that he is accountable to you? Demand?

I’m sorry, I’m choking on the word ‘demand.’ My goodness these ADM’s like to demand. Here’s a demand of my own: I demand that Ken Silva post his picture online for everyone to see and unless he does I will continue to believe he is a fictional character. Demand! Bwwaaahhahahahaha! Demand. (Sex!)

I’m also amused by this quote:

Mark Driscoll should be shunned by decent people everywhere. There are Mormons and certainly Muslims who have more of a sense of decency and propriety in sexual matters than he does. There is a filthiness about this man that evokes a strong desire for a disinfecting bath after watching him. This is not the spirit of Christ. It is the spirit of the age.

So now, as it was pointed out by someone wiser than I: “Anyone else find it hilarious that she looks to Mormons and Muslims to show us the proper way to go, and then says that its the “spirit of the age”.” (Sex) “Shunned”? What are we now, pilgrims? Are we living in Jamestown? Demand! I demand you ladies out there start wearing really long and thick dresses again; and stay quiet at church. (Sex.)

Yes, I do. Demand? (Sex)

**ALERT** With all due respect to the sexually uninformed: If you don’t like Mark Driscoll, and you don’t like the words he uses, here is a very simple exercise for you: Turn it off. Don’t click the link. Close your ears. Turn the channel. I mean, it’s not that difficult. Seriously. It is not that difficult. No one is forcing you to pay attention to Mark Driscoll. (Sex) **END ALERT**

And, concerning the last link, the letter from ‘Derek’, I have a question: Derek, if you think Driscoll is embarrassing the name of Christ because he talks about sex, do you think the author of SOL is doing any better for the name of Christ by continually tearing apart pastors over whom she has absolutely no authority whatsoever? Seriously, ‘Derek’, from the ‘Braidwood Bible Chapel’, can you show me where in the Bible it says that the author of Slice has a right to say what she is saying about pastors whose churches she does not belong to? Can you show me where she has a theological or moral obligation to make demands of anyone?? Did you read the rest of Ephesians 4-5 where it says we are to be kind to one another and forgiving, and compassionate? And what about that crazy part where it says we are to ‘get rid of all bitterness, rage, and anger, and brawling, and slander, and every form of malice.’ Do the Bibles at Braidwood Bible Chapel have those verses too? (Sex.)

Oooh, oooh, ‘Derek’, don’t forget that one that says this: “…walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant sacrifice to God.” Yes, brother ‘Derek’, those verses are in there too. Do you think that the author of Slice needs another letter from you today? (Sex.)

Time to grow up kids.

PS, I happen also to think that Driscoll’s sex sermons are pathetic and embarrassing. But I do the manly thing: I don’t listen to them.

Sex. Sex. Sex. Sex. Sex. Sex. (Just want to make sure we get picked up by a whole mess of porn sites.)

Here’s a link to a series of 5 sermons hosted by Driscoll at Mars Hill featuring Dr DA Carson. I wonder if perhaps the author of Slice should demand Dr Carson no longer speak at Mars Hill in Seattle? Maybe we should start suspecting Dr Carson too…

***Just having a little fun.****

(sort of: see: He said: Love One Another)

cf., Luke 23:22-24

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This entry was posted on Wednesday, January 14th, 2009 at 9:32 pm and is filed under Humor, Ingrid, Women, sexuality. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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36 Comments(+Add)

1   Rick Frueh    http://http?//
January 14th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

Jerry – I find it profoundly duplicitous that she uses the Driscoll issue to prove the necessity of women prophetesses. There aren’t enough men? There are literally thousands of men that love MacArthur and the like who preach incessently about these issues, in fact, almost all cities in American have at least one church that speaks out about these issues. So her justification for female oversight of ordained men throughout the nation is without merit.

The list of apostates grows. Mohler and Lutzer are apostates in waiting until they come before Ingrid with all her demands sufficiently met. I do not consider Mark Driscoll an apostate, but I will refrain from repeating my strong objections to his methodology. One of the signs in the last days will be a departure from authority, and one of these departures are women with caustic tongues and are allowed by their male leaders to run rampant in the evangelical world.

The obvious inconsistency is when some group strongly defends their complimentarian position, while at the same time encouraging the “weaker vessels” to rebuke evangelical male leaders with impunity, and claim it is perfectly in concert with their beliefs.

“These are not the droids you are looking for”.

2   Brendt
January 14th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

I agree — they’re very demanding.

Oh, you meant as a verb, not an adjective. Never mind. (Sex)

3   Rick Frueh    http://http?//
January 14th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

BTW – In an effort to cut out the middle man, and to avoid the endless posts and articles necessary to identify each person and each issue, I hereby demand that everyone answer to me.

There, no loopholes and no escape. I await everyone’s responses.

4   Jerry
January 14th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

Rick as author of the post, I hereby retain all rights to any demands made. Therefore, I demand you renounce your demands for Fealty and submit yourself to the governing authority.

5   Rick Frueh    http://http?//
January 14th, 2009 at 10:30 pm

“Therefore, I demand you renounce your demands for Fealty and submit yourself to the governing authority.”

OK, but I demand they are all males. :)

6   Chris    
January 14th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

Am I the only one that is growing tired of a woman telling me how to be a man?

7   Chris    
January 14th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

oh and (sex). Double dog dare ya!

8   Rick Frueh    http://http?//
January 14th, 2009 at 11:16 pm

“Am I the only one that is growing tired of a woman telling me how to be a man?”

I have been holding that class for some time, chris, good to have you in our support group.

“My name is chris and I am tired of having a woman telling me how to be a man.”

“Hello, chris.” (group in unison)

9   Neil    
January 15th, 2009 at 12:21 am

It seems to be the natural progression. From pointing out everyone’s sins (according to themselves) to demanding correction according to their terms)…

10   Aaron    
January 15th, 2009 at 3:14 am

(sex) (wish I could get a bigger font size…)

11   nc    
January 15th, 2009 at 8:58 am

RE: #6

Oh, Chris…you’ve got it all wrong.

I mean, what would we all have done if God had not given us the Gospel of Anger–held in trust by the Holy Spirit until the right people were here to receive it and proclaim it?

What has the Church been doing all this time until that true Gospel could be given to it, finally and fully?

Where would we be without them?

You should be thankful…

because most times the best lesson’s in life are the ones that clearly demonstrate how not to be.

12   chris    
January 15th, 2009 at 10:40 am




13   Jerry
January 15th, 2009 at 11:05 am


I agree, publishing a letter from an 18 year in order to justify the self seems duplicitous to me too. And, perhaps somewhat exploitative.

The issue with ‘demands’ is even worse though. I’m sure that Dr Mohler and Dr Lutzer are sitting around, biting their nails, worried to death that the author of slice is all over their case. I’m sure these educated men need the help of the author of slice to make decisions about who and who not to associate with. (Sex.)


14   Neil    
January 15th, 2009 at 11:46 am

And who is probably taking the brunt of the anger? The administrative assistants who answer the numbers that were published.

15   Jerry
January 15th, 2009 at 11:57 am

I found this helpful:

22 Words

And apropos.

16   John Hughes    
January 15th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

Jerry: Ingrid, no doubt, sees her anger as righteous indignation. I see a lot of “righteous indignation” in the comments here, too. Just say’n.

I think Ingrid is on a self-destructive spiral. It’s getting worse of late. I agree with a lot of what is said here. IMO she should just address the issues, provide scriptual support and let the Holy Spirit work instead of all these ad hominen attacks and pithy put-downs (but you have to give it to her – she sure can paint a vibrant picture with her turn of a phrase — although that is more appropriately a sin instead of a gift. I agree with Rick: such “coarse language” does much more damage to the Body of Christ than “curse” words).

I fear for her mental health, really. If she does not let go of her bitterness it will be her ruin, I’m afraid.


17   Rick Frueh    http://http?//
January 15th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

“I see a lot of “righteous indignation” in the comments here, too. Just say’n.”

I see a lot of righteous indignation about righteous indignation about righteous indignation.

Just say’n too. :)

18   iggy
January 15th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

John H,

I think if more of her supporters would stand up and email her and state just as you did above God will do something. I do not think Ingrid is heartless… just out of control.


19   Bo Diaz    
January 15th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

What’s really amazing is how unqualified she is to be in the position of “discernment”. She can’t even get basic facts right.

For example:

Men like Driscoll gain a platform through the endorsement and defense of older leaders, men who are well old enough to know better. It’s time these men heard from the Christian remnant who find things like the public discussion of homosexual-style sex for married couples repugnant.

Driscoll’s platform wasn’t built in the way she describes at all. His platform was built by the success he was met with in ministering in Seattle to a young demographic, not through the “endorsement of older leaders”.

Also the use of the term “homosexual-style sex” is ridiculous. Either sex is being had between two people of the same gender, or its not.

She’s a disgrace to truth and to the way Christians should be acting.

20   Joe
January 15th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

Someone asked me if I was you. I’m coming out and saying I’m not. :) Now, someone can check the ISP.

21   Bo Diaz    
January 15th, 2009 at 1:04 pm

Bo is Bo.

22   Rick Frueh    http://http?//
January 15th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

Bo knows Bo.

23   Rick Frueh    http://http?//
January 15th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

“Either sex is being had between two people of the same gender, or its not.”

And that’s all that needs to be said in a public forum. If Mars Hill links to the one Ingrid provides and says they do, it is a disgrace. Former generations still figured out how to procreate and exhibited a lower divorce rate.


24   nc    
January 15th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

“homosexual style”?

What does that mean?


25   nc    
January 15th, 2009 at 1:37 pm


and for good measure:

(sexual purity)

26   nc    
January 15th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

…certainly Muslims who have more of a sense of decency and propriety in sexual matters than he does.

yeah, those muslims…making women sexual property and not even letting them be out in the real world without male supervision or even interacting with other men in public…burqas must be the answer.

yeah…that’s propriety alright…

Actually, i wish the imams would take a page from that play book. It mean we wouldn’t have to hear from that woman anymore.


I can see the campaign slogan now:

Burqas: Saving Propriety. Controlling Property.

27   nc    
January 15th, 2009 at 2:18 pm

I’m no fan of Driscoll, but lay the wood to the guy where he deserves it.

The link posted was done so with a disclaimer that they do not endorse everything in the site, but let people know about the site to hear stories from other Christians in the same situation.

By that standard, that Dwanya person should change too because she puts a disclaimer for her links too.

gimme a break.

I just hope Lutzer and the like don’t cave to these crazies.

28   Rick Frueh    http://http?//
January 15th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

“but let people know about the site to hear stories from other Christians in the same situation.”

What “situation”?

29   John Hughes    
January 15th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

NC: “homosexual style”? What does that mean?

Calvin Klein?

30   John Hughes    
January 15th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

No stripes with plads?

31   Chris L
January 15th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

“homosexual style”?

What does that mean?

This is Ingrid’s reference to a question that Mark Driscoll answered regarding permissibility of anal intercourse within marriage. You see, rather than rebuke the questioner for asking a frank question about sex, Driscoll and his wife answered this one, and a series of sexual questions for members of their church.

Oh, the horror!

Somehow, this reminds me of the question – do you want to talk to your kid about sex, or do you want to let Johnny, the kid sitting in the back of the bus, teach him?

32   Jerry
January 15th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

I think the best person to ask what sort of sex is permissible in marriage is…your spouse. But that’s just me. It creates all sorts of interesting conversations within the marriage.

33   Aaron    
January 15th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

Just out of curiosity, how old are Ingrid and Ken? I typically sense a gap in the generations with the comfort level of discussing sex. Older generations think it’s a dirty word (s-x? *gasp!*) while younger generations think its a normal, openly discussable thing (without giving personal details, of course).

Culture, culture, culture, how thy form changes constantly… too bad some Christians (er…) don’t.

34   Jerry
January 15th, 2009 at 4:35 pm


You know, orthodox Jews won’t say the name of God or write it. They do something like this: G-D. I suppose they do it out of fear or respect.

I wonder if that is why some people write sex like this: S-x.

Just wondering.

PS–I mean no offense to Jewish people, orthodox or otherwise.

35   Brendt
January 15th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

Aaron, I’m not stupid enough to guess a woman’s age, but here’s a picture that she’s in.

You do have a point to some extent. And given the demographic of Mars Hill, the large part of the congregation are (a) more comfortable with it and (b) see it as actually relevant to their lives.

Which leads to a sidebar — when preaching at Mars Hill, Driscoll is ministering to the people at — gasp — Mars Hill. We’re just fortunate enough to be able to listen in via the magic of teh interwebs. Amazing how some people think that because God’s not talking to them about a given subject, that there’s no value to it.

On the other hand, puritanical fundamentalism knows no age limit (in either direction).

36   nc    
January 15th, 2009 at 8:13 pm

Again, no Driscoll fan here. In fact he’s officially a cult leader in my book. (they are sinning by questioning)

That being said, even a cult leader can say true things and/or right things…

In other words, given the culture of Seattle, we are talking about a church community that probably has people who were not raised in homes with any sort of direction/guidance relating to sexual matters.

I remember, while in Seattle this past summer, seeing a young teen propositioning men and women to get money…we’re talking a need for frank discussion…