God is allowing this to be unleashed because of America’s rebellion and the wickedness within His own church.
The “this” in the above declaration of God’s behavior is the accusation that someone has “rented several rooms at Washington’s Doubletree Hotel for their Sodomite orgy.” It’s hard to say who posed this theological rot since no author was given.
But it does raise some interesting questions such as:
In what history is this person living that America was so godly in previous generations? How is America rebellious now and she was not before? Was America not in rebellion when she enslaved a race of people? Was she not in rebellion when she committed near genocide for gold and land? Was she not in rebellion when she persecuted people based on their religion and/or nation of origin? The assertion that God is somehow so much more upset with us now, because the nation is tolerant of this sin as opposed to that sin is theologically retarded. Such assertions remind me of the warning: “You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name” (Exodus 20:7).
Now, regarding “wickedness within His own church” – let me see if I have the logic correct? God is allowing a group of homosexuals to openly flaunt there sin because of wickedness within the church? Now “church” was not capitalized, so I am not sure if the author is thinking in terms of local churches or the Universal Church. I have a hunch such theological distinctions are beneath our author… that, or they are not able to discern them - but I digress. So, we are to suppose God is allowing sinners to sin based on others sinning within his church? Two questions: 1) for what are God’s purposes in this? 2) is this anything new?
Sure, the particular sin may be new, but that’s only real estate.
Finally, this whole declarative statement of what God is doing in Washington this week was preceded by “There’s no stopping them now” – the “them” being the homosexuals. What a telling statement. There is no stopping them… now? Why because the President of the U.S.A. thinks they are not sinning? Because Gos is allowing them to sin? And have we ever stopped them before? Is it our job to stop them? Is calling their sin a “Sodomite orgy” really going to help win them to Christ – or just make “someone” feel better?
I find the thought of people lost in their sin(s) sorrowful – regardless of what sin it may be. I find homosexuals trading the natural for the unnatural to be repugnant – whether they do it in groups or in pairs is irrelevant. But I find the attitude of this unknown poster at Slice of Laodicea to be both.
[I am hoping this does not turn into yet another thread of comments on homosexuality - that is not the point]
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
48 Comments(+Add)
Ummm….even if there is an orgy–of any kind–at the Doubletree how does that add up to “unleashed judgement” on America?
I mean…how does such an orgy hurt me or even anyone actually in D.C. where it supposedly will happen?
If anything…if it’s true…I’m glad to know it. I never like Doubletree Hotels anyway. It’s just another reason to not stay there if I’m ever in D.C. again.
Boy, someone should bass this libel slander on to Double tree as I think their lawyers would like to hear of this….
sheesh!
Some time ago, and Chris L. can back me up on this, Ingrid claimed all this stuff was directly FROM God. Now she says “He’s allowing it”. Correct me if I am wrong, if Ingrid says with authority that “God is allowing this to be unleashed because of America’s rebellion and the wickedness within His own church”, doesn’t that place her in the role of prophetess since only a prophetic insight can know authoritatively what God is doing and why, especially when it comes to correction?
And in case anyone is interested, God doesn’t have a real good track record in keeping wickedness “leashed” throughout the nation’s and church’s history. I recall the trafficking of humans called slaves, I remember the roaring 20s, I remember the Vietnam War, I remember segregation, I remember the Civil War, I remember smallpox, and I remember the wholesale slaughter of the American Indians.
Was that God’s restraining power on display? Ingrid lives in a personal echo chamber that continues to make any statement that seems spiritual and prophetic, but is more Shakesperian than Christian.
or the sex trade of children in southeast asia…I wonder what those kids did to deserve God’s wrath…except for being born muslim or buddhist….
As absolute “sovereigntists” what’s really the difference between “doing” something and “allowing” something?
Isn’t that just them playing word games with themselves?
I’d still like to know how the orgy is a judgement on America?
Rick, you remember the 20s? And I thought I was old!
I’m sure there were orgies during the Bush era…somewhere, sometime…
I wonder why God “allowed” Adam to sin, was he judging the Garden of Edem or Adam’s furure race? I believe such statements, fully of self righteous sound and fury, signify nothing.
Let’s see, if my children were rebellious would I consider the way to show my displeasure is to let them have an orgy in my house? Yea, that’ll teach ‘em!
“Hey Dad, I want to thow a big orgy and I want to use your home. How about it?
“You kids are soooo rebellious – go ahead, I’ll allow you to.
I find it interesting that so many ODM’s know about the orgies going on… makes one wonder…
Really I am most shocked that their minds are so full of this sort of imagery… It seems that they have a sick fascination with perverted sexual active and while they condemn Mark Driscoll for speaking bluntly… they do the same thing!
iggy
Whoever made the post never said judgment, though it’s not hard to make that assumption based on the rant at SOL.
If it’s not outright judgment it could be a reference to God allowing things to get worse… but that begs the “When was it good” question.
How do we know it’s Ingrid?
To me it raises a couple theological questions:
Is a culture that accepts homosexuality worse than a culture that dehumanizes based on race?
Is a culture that pressures people to attend church regardless of their personal beliefs “better” than one in which there is no pressure, or even pressure no to attend worship – which produces a more pure church?
“How do we know it’s Ingrid?”
She’s signed it, and it also bears the unmistakeable marks of her hyperbolic and redemptiveless verbiage which we’ve all come to appreciate and expect.
I don’t see the signature – but you are right, it does have her fingerprints all over it.
Her name is on the post.
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/
1. Congress has been sodomizing one another, and the American public, for generations. This is the modus operandi of creating and passing bills. That is politics.
2. God is sovereign and has complete foreknowledge.
The scriptures demonstrate that He is able to intervene at His dicretion in any given circumstance, and He most certainly does not need any of our help.
So if He has allowed all kinds of depravity and such, then we best be in the scripture and our knees.
He requires obedience, and not sacrifice.
His people know what to do, or at the very least, how to gain such revelation.
Of course that excludes those who think that the Holy Spirit split in 70 AD.
He does not want to hear your pious blether anymore than the rest of us do.
You are so busy fighting the “evil calvinist God” that you fail to see the error of your own open theist/arminian idolatry.
IOW you don’t interpret the scriptures any better than those you criticize.
As a reminder to all – America was birthed in an open rebellion to the Scriptural mandate to be subject to the “higher powers”, unless of course you consider yorself taxed too much. If God was in favor of the Revolutionary War then the Bible is not God’s Word.
Again, America was born in rebellion.
OK – I followed the link to the post’s dedicated page… There it is not credited,
Thanks Rick.
I would like to hear (but I will not “demand”) from Ingrid, or anyone for that matter, on how homosexuality a worse sin than slavery, genocide, etc…
I would like to hear (but I will not “demand”) from Ingrid, or anyone for that matter, on how cultural pressures to attend church produce a purer church than cultural pressures not to attend church.
Good luck with that, Neil.
I guess God also allowed some of the early American fathers to attend late night rondevouz with some of their black slaves.
Approximately 75,000 people died in the Revolutionary War, a war of taxation. Is that any worse a sin than praciticing homosexuality?
Approximately 9-12 million slaves arrived in the New World and conservative estimates have the same number as trans-Atlantic casualties. Is that a worse sin as well?
“What a piece of work is man.”
Arguing over which sin is worse is like arguing over how dead a dead man is.
iggu
TOP TEN AMERICAN SINS
10. Doing 55mph in a 55mph zone.
9. Taking too long ordering in the drive through line at McDonald’s.
8. Being nice to a muslim
7. Being against the Iraq War.
6. Living in San Francisco.
5. Supporting school busing.
4. Never having visited Disneyworld
3. Dragging some scumbag into church.
2. Praying for Barney Frank
And the #1 sin in America -
1. Being slow with the TV remote!!!
OH MY GOSH! The first EVAH homosexual party! Homosexuals wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for Obama. Either that or we can ignore them and pretend the country is holy.
Number 10 is Universal I think. I get beeped and tail gated all the time for doing the limit! Hmmm, same with 9, 8, 3 and 1
What we do know about Australians is they are all descendants of English criminals. It’s not their fault, it’s just the facts. A small amount have been rehabilitated.
An interesting fact: South Australia is the only state to have had no penal colonies, and have the most different accent to the rest of Australia. In total there are about four white Australian accents. People outside Australia don’t know this, but any Australian accent done by ANY non-Aussie sounds completely fake and we laugh loudly when we hear it.
I do know however, Rick, that USA was originally a penal colony too!
“I do know however, Rick, that USA was originally a penal colony too!”
It still is in some ways!
* At what point does this brand of Christianity cease to be Christian?
* At what point, in the absence of any redemption, does your message cease to be Christian?
* How many demeaning remarks, how many vilifying labels, and how many contemptuous descriptions are necessary before your writings can no longer be considered Christian?
* How many graceless, loveless, merciless, and gospel-less posts result in a blog being unchristian?
* How many times can you mock sinners, mock beleivers, mock pastors, and mock everything at your whim before the entire essence is not Christian?
* And how many times can you claim you are God’s mouthpiece when most of what you say is self righteous and meant to destroy rather than redeem?
Christ came not into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. That, my friends, IS Christianity.
Thank you, Rick.
What I read at Slice is hateful and ugly and in no way displays any of the fruits of the spirit. Jesus said you would be able to recognize his followers by their love. Slice is an empty, loveless, barren wasteland populated by people who are spiritually dead.
I hope no one minds if I put these thoughts on this thread, since we are speaking of what is really Christian.
Let us never forget, it isn’t our good works, it isn’t our discernment capabilities, it isn’t the perfection of our systematic theologies, in fact it isn’t anything about us but it is in spite of us. When we reach the River of Life in God’s presence, it will have been completely on the power of our Pilot’s grace.
There is only one mediator, one navigator, the man Christ Jesus. All praise to Him!
Rick -
As a side-note – Captain Chelsey B. Sullenburger III received his aviation degree from Purdue…
“As a side-note – Captain Chelsey B. Sullenburger III received his aviation degree from Purdue…”
A further revelation of God’s grace!
While I certainly agree that they are loveless and the site is a barren wasteland… we probably should refrain from saying they are spiritually dead. This could be construed at saying they are not Christians, not born-again, not fellows in Christ.
They are hateful and ugly… yet they do love. On a cynical level they love to judge, they love to idolize the past, they love to elevate their own cultural rendition of following Christ as a standard by which all following of Christ is to be judged…. They embody Steve Taylor’s sarcastic “If you wanna be one of HIS, you gotta act like one of US…”
On another level though I truly believe they do what they do out of love of Christ and his Church. It’s a misguided love that lacks (ironically) discernment and does more harm than good… but it is out of love nonetheless.
Neil, I completely disagree. They are most certainly sincere, but God describes love in I Cor. 13 and most of what proceeds from some of them is not love. It may be sincere, but it is motivated by an inflated view of themselves and a demeaning view of their “adversaries”. And although they sincerely believe they are being loyal to the cause of Christ, it still is not God’s love. Love does not act like that in any way.
I’m sure they love their kids and pets.
Hitler was very fond of his dogs. Himmler would take his boots off before entering his house at night so as not to wake his canary.
just say’n…
I see them loving God as Saul did as he persecuted the church.
I too was once zealous for God without knowledge of His grace. I too would mouth Grace and teach the Law… I was just like them… maybe worse. But for Grace…
iggy
There is nothing good in me, except Christ. God, be merciful to me, a sinner.
Neil – I’m not a Christian. I’m just calling it like I see it.
I know Christians who try to live as Christ taught and I respect that (I was raised in a fundamentalist parsonage0).
But I know a lot of people who try to pass off a passionate interest in eschatology, or the battle on the front lines of the Culture Wars, or Republican Politics, or Pro-Life Activisim as the sign of an inner spiritual life. They are spritually dead, and you shouldn’t pretend otherwise even though you may agree with what they’re saying.
I don’t like the Evangelical Circus any more than Ingrid does, but I’m still an atheist.
“God, be merciful to me, a sinner.”
Oh yea, John, and what a glaring example of it you are!
There many Christians who so love Christ and so love people that they have left the comforts of western society and have spent their lives sharing and living the gospel of Jesus Christ in absolute obscurity somewhere around the world.
I watch as the Wombles, a family from our church, stood cheerfully and testified of the grace of Jesus Christ. They were missionaries to Pakistan and in 2002 had been in a small church service in Pakistan when some terrorists threw several hand grenades in the midst of the congregation.
The mother will always limp from her injuries, the oldest son, 8 years old, only lived after 4 months of incredible medical attention in Germany, and the grenage that had rolled right under their feet had not detinated. Instead of being bitter or acting like victims, they asked for prayer that God would allow them to GO BACK.
They have been back now for almost 4 years and Jeff, the husband, brings Bibles secretly into another country that would either imprison him or kill him for doing so. They do it all with love and humility.
That is genuine love, not chronically exhibiting some diatribe, demeaning and excoriating everything in their self righteous paths. I truly believe that many times the love of Christ in the lives of believers are most remarkable on mission fields, in other countries, and many times in prisons.
Please do not attempt to sell me that ADMs show the love of Christ. They usually show the love of their systematic theology, the love of their self described dedicated lives, and the love of each other in the ADM camp.
Rick,
you’re on fire!!!
I just got the latest Saddleback E-mail
“Nothing matters more than the Church. We forget that the reason God created the entire universe is because he wanted a family, and that family is the only thing that will last forever with Him. Everything else on this planet is temporary, no matter how much attention it gets.”
He also said, regarding the Obama ceremony:
“But, in God’s eyes, and in the perspective of his eternal purposes, what you are doing will actually last longer than what any political leader will do. Your ministry will impact eternity. Think about that! While no nation lasts forever, God’s family will. Remember, prominence and significance are not synonymous.”
I think RW is doing something different from what CRN.com thinks he is.
Dave, you Australians are so naive.
Rick, I agree in principle. I should have said:
“On another level though I believe they think what they do is out of love of Christ and his Church.”
How’s that?
Gordo,
Understood.
Thanks,
Neil
That’s better, Neil. I do not believe they understand what lov is. When it comes to negativity and attack they need not borrow from anyone eles’s heart, their pens are flowing and profuse as they draw directly from the well of their own hearts and minds and post articles with their own originality.
But when it comes to speaking of ourwonderful Lord or our so great salvation, they mostle cut and paste from Spurgeon or Owen or some other Puritan, but rarely if ever do you see a devotional post that is a direct expression from their own heart.
And so often they cull out from someone like Spurgeon a quote that deals with false doctrine or theological enemies or even Calvinism, when the abundance of his writings are devotional and gospel oriented. It is shameful yet transparent when someone with an obvious gift for the mechanics of writing can effortlessly produce streams of creative viciousness but seems so restrained in expresing their simple love for Jesus that devotional prose escapes them and they must appropriate the eloquence of others.
So many of those who boldly proclaim “Sola Scriptura” must believe I Corinthians 13 was added later by a careless scribe.