I guess my issue would be Jesus’ comments that He is the “firstborn from the dead” (Rev 1:5).

Also, why is David “both dead and buried” (Acts 2) but Moses and Elijah are alive and well? Especially when you consider that both Moses and Enoch are mentioned in Hebrews 11 (and Elijah indirectly) as NOT receiving the promise – yet. Or consider what the angel told Daniel:

Daniel 12: But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”

There’s a lot more (ie: John 6 alone – 3 references to the resurrection at the “last day”) as well.

I would take John 3:13 in the context of no man has ascended to heaven under his own power for the purpose of obtaining salvation. Elijah and Enoch were translated without death by a sovereign act of God (i.e, not under their own volition as I believe is the implacation of the passage in John.

I haven’t studied the Hebrews passage in light of this conversation so I’ll have to get back with you on that.

It is evident that saved souls are conscious in heaven because moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus at His transfiguration.

1. John 3:13 “No man has ascended up to heaven…”

2. Hebrews 11: mentions Enoch. Then it says that these ALL died in faith, not having received the promise (eternal life) as they are waiting for us

Also, in Rev 1:5, Jesus is the “firstborn from the dead”. I know Enoch did not see death as a normal man would, but was taken out of existence.

You are a free man, but just know that the offer is never revoked.

Thank you – sincerely. Also know that the offer stands for you as well (hey, you can view services on my website).

I don’t doubt your love for the Lord (or those who shared with you), but I would strongly suggest that you go beyond the doctrines held and taught by the RCC.

I can’t say I’ve never been in the proverbial ditch since then; but thats usually been the result of sin.

Actually, in the context of when these words were spoken by Jesus the ditch was religion. Brett, I would simply explore and challenge yourself to seriously look at things like purgatory, indulgences, Mary/saint veneration, and other areas to gain an understanding of the Biblical view towards these things.

In my view, the RCC has built another house which is not on the foundation of Christ, the apostles and prophets.

In effect, they are blind leaders leading blind followers. Unfortunately, the followers end up in the ditch as well.

I am sorry you see things that way. I actually received and was introduced to Christ 8 years ago by a small group of catholic Christians who gave me my 1st bible. His grace caused many scales to fall from my eyes so I could truly see for the 1st time. I can’t say I’ve never been in the proverbial ditch since then; but thats usually been the result of sin.

Thanks for the offer Brett, but I will decline

You are a free man, but just know that the offer is never revoked.

There’s a clear difference of opinion that precedes “saints praying” about “where dead christians are”.

I’m guessing that’s where you and I would have to start…

“to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord”?

But I think you would also agree that the same bible does not clearly define or give any proof of the burial or final resting place of Mary’s mortal remains.

True – in fact, after the 2nd chapter of Acts, she is never mentioned again. Of course, history (as oppose to RCC fantasy) does lean toward the fact that she went to Ephesus with John and died there. Where she died is unimportant. She was a wonderful woman, will be a part of Jesus’ kingdom when he returns and resurrects her, but she is not in heaven right now.

my guess is that top on the list is catholics

Brett – I honestly have no problem at all with Catholics themselves, but what I don’t like (having been a Catholic for 20 yrs before becoming a Christian) is that biblical truth is not nearly as important as retaining traditions. Jesus spoke about this at length in Matthew 15.

Furthermore, the RCC gives people a false sense of salvation (purgatory, Mary/saint veneration and indulgences) that undermines the faith we should have in Christ. In effect, they are blind leaders leading blind followers. Unfortunately, the followers end up in the ditch as well.

you are always welcome to come back to confession and celebrate mass at any time.

Thanks for the offer Brett, but I will decline. No other institution has done a better job of blinding its congregants to the riches that are in Christ. And I say that knowing hundreds of Catholics who rest comfortably in the fact they’re Catholic, but never having received Christ.

I agree with you that the doctrine of the assumption in not clearly defined in the bible. But I think you would also agree that the same bible does not clearly define or give any proof of the burial or final resting place of Mary’s mortal remains. The Lord’s death and burial are thoroughly chronicled in scripture, and in your 3rd world travels I doubt that you found any of those superstitious catholics worshipping at his mother’s grave.

I do admire your commitment to the truth Paul. You obviously have some serious problems with the catholic church, my guess is that top on the list is catholics – some of them bug the hell out of me at times
Just in case none of my fellow catholics has every extended the invitation; you are always welcome to come back to confession and celebrate mass at any time.