Diseases that killed hundreds of thousands of people

No doubt, but the subject here is worldliness.

Consider this: is it any coincidence that the 20th century is responsible for more murders through war and genocides as you mentioned, than EVERY OTHER century added up together in the history of man?

The reason: technology has enabled mass destruction like never before. Man’s nature, when exposed to sin and accessibility to evil is increased, naturally bends that way.

Sin is abounding and so is grace indeed, but worldliness within the church is also abounding along with it.

My point is that is impossible to build a case that things are getting better, unless you’re blind. Scripture also points to increasing sin and worldliness as we head towards the end of this age.

Well, things are worse in some areas and better in others. Diseases that killed hundreds of thousands of people years ago are now just memories. On the other hand we still have genocides. Human nature is still human nature.

I guess I just don’t buy the idea that everything is simple going to pot because it just lead to isolationism. It’s what I grew up around and many people I know are still like that. Rather than try and engage problems, they would rather sit back and complain about them.

Yes, people are sinners and sin is abounding, but grace is abounding more.

Just because things are more exposed doesn’t mean people’s hearts and motivations are different.

I hear you Phil but it would be hard to deny that the more people are exposed to sin, the more sinful they become. It is not a quantifiable measurement, but that doesn’t mean that something is not increasing or decreasing (think of something like love which also isn’t humanly quantifiable, yet we don’t doubt it exists or that our love for some is different than our love for others).

Take the credit crisis: all the banks did was make credit more easily accessible than ever before. By nature, people’s greed drove them to live beyond their means. It’s human nature that exposure to sin leads to acting upon it.

If you believe the world is getting more sinful, it’s easy to find things to bolster your claim. If you see the world ripe for harvest, it will make you see it in another way.

I’m not sure that people who see the reality of general degradation and who are believers just fold their hands and decide to nothing. This point doesn’t make sense. In fact, where there is greater sin, isn’t their greater need?

My point is that is impossible to build a case that things are getting better, unless you’re blind. Scripture also points to increasing sin and worldliness as we head towards the end of this age.

Just as Rome became more and more wicked (or Sodom/Gomorrah), or Israel until it reached an intolerable level, isn’t our society going the same way? Just by the sheer amount of technology and accessibility, the potential to sin and exposure to sin has never been greater.

Talk to any public school teacher whose been in the system for while, Christian or non-believer, and they will tell you the same I think.

I just don’t know how you ever measure something like sinfulness that accurately. It seems in some area things that were once hidden are now out in the open more. Just because things are more exposed doesn’t mean people’s hearts and motivations are different.

I think also there simply more sin because there’s more people. Population increases exponentially, so it follows that the more people there are, the more sinners there will be.

This kind of reminds me of a business event I was at last week sponsored by a local bank. They did a survey of their customers and local business, and one question they asked was to name the top strength in our local economy and another question asked people for the weakness and the answer were reported in the form of “xx% say so-and-so is the top strength of our economy…”. Well the thing that was interesting to me was that some of the things made it on to both lists. Like for example, some people said the cost of living was one of top strengths, yet other people said that was one of our biggest weaknesses!

It just proves once more that so much of life is based on our perception of it. If you believe the world is getting more sinful, it’s easy to find things to bolster your claim. If you see the world ripe for harvest, it will make you see it in another way.

The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap

by Stephanie Coontz

Great read…it put the final nail in the coffin when it came to trusting the cultural mythologies of conservative evangelicalism.

http://www.amazon.com/Way-We-Never-Were-Nostalgia/dp/0465090974/?tag=fishtheabys-20

I wasn’t alive in the 50’s, but it’s failings, just like any decade of any century were there. However, contrast to 2009 and I think we have a different story.

Just as Rome became more and more wicked (or Sodom/Gomorrah), or Israel until it reached an intolerable level, isn’t our society going the same way? Just by the sheer amount of technology and accessibility, the potential to sin and exposure to sin has never been greater.

Talk to any public school teacher whose been in the system for while, Christian or non-believer, and they will tell you the same I think.

Rick: If we step back and actually read the Scriptures, starting with just Matthew chapters 5,6, and 7, with a literal interpretation and with a painful comparison with our own manifested experience, we just might find that our journey to follow Him has long since wandered off track.

Excellent, excellent point. Well taken.

Bo: Pulling strings for your friends, using power to benefit yourself, defining your neighbor as people you like, indulging yourself with the gifts God has given you, forgetting orphans and widows, deluding yourself into believing that you control anything in regards to your own life, in short, doing anything less than loving God and loving others.

I agree with this as well. But I do believe the spirit of the age we are living in leads us to these things, but the means to get us there shift from generation to generation. For example, how the Devil approached the early church (persecution) might be different than how he approaches the church today.

LOL

My examples are not strawmen since I asked a question did not use either to leverage my point. It was just meant to provoke a deeper consideration than just “he smoke = he’s worldy mentality.