I have not, and will not (yet) call into question your faith. – PB

Thanks

What a lousy exegesis of scripture, that aside, The Jerusalem Council had to do with the Judaizers adding the keeping of the law to the Gentile believers, such a dietary laws and circumcision. Your perception of those who say that the apostasy is coming (and it is coming) and can see examples of it in modern Christianity are trying to add to the Gospel. No, they are saying lets get back to the preaching of the Gospel and hold to it alone rather than the false advertising for Christ done in so many of the modern churches. – PB

Actually, I was not exegeting Scripture, I was making an historical parallel – again, your haste has made you sloppy.

As well you show more historical naivete. People have always added to the Gospel… there has always been apostasy… and always will be this side of the parousia.

My point in bringing up the council was to make a parallel between those who wanted pagan believers to become Jews (both religiously and culturally) and those today who want new believers and new churches to remain culturally monolithic with what they believe to be normative.

Not to mention that church attendance in the 50s was near 90%. Are you really trying to tell me that 90% of the American population was following Christ? It also means that the types of churches the ADMs crave were filled with far more false converts than the ones they spew venom about. – Bo

This is why I do not fret reports like the one that came out this past week. It’s not like lots of people are leaving Christianity, it more like a new generation are just not following their parents into a veneer Christianity.

Personally, I’d much rather have a culture that mocks Christianity (not say’n I want to be persecuted) than one that props it as we saw for the bulk of the 20th century.

We have been so focused on looking like the culture that surrounds us than the God that has bought us that people see nothing worth living or dying for in what American Christianity has become.

Again – I reject your “what American Christianity has become” as if it has become, or every was, one thing. This is sloppy.

That said, I agree that much of the seeker-driven emphasis of the recent past, and the liberalization of the mainline denominations in the distant past are guilty of this. And some are continuing this to this day.

But this is also why I am so encouraged by those who have recognized this and are rejecting it – such as Bell, Kimball, Driscoll, Stanley, et. al. – it excited me for the future of churches in America.

Most of my friends see the only tradition that they will hang their hat on is the clear teaching of scripture.

Now who’s being naive. WE ALL hang our collective hats on traditions. Saying otherwise pretty much the most naive things I’ve seen you write.

Watch most televangelists and ‘seeker’ sensitive churches, even many emergent churches and you will see that is mans senses and sensibilities that are being worshipped. – PB

Agreed. Though televangelists and seeker-sensitive churches (in the Hybels’ sense) are not our usual topic of discussion. As for “emergent” I believe I referenced them in the OP.

What you fail to do quite regularly is distinguish between seeker-sensitive and seeker-driven… as between emerging and emergent.

I’d say the vast majority of my complaints against you lie in your inability or unwillingness to distinguish nuances… you are quick to create broad-brushed caricatures then attack.

Yes, there are many biblical churches being started and older ones being reformed even now. But it is a small percentage compared to the falling away that is happening in most congregations across this great land. – PB

Again, just repeating the claim does not make it so.

…there are many being planted that hold to a reformed view of scripture and of church government,

Here you are inserting YOUR particular system and making it normative – which can also be a form of idolatry.

…preach the Word expositionally,

Here you are inserting YOUR particular method and making it normative – which can also be a form of idolatry.

…having biblical church leadership that examine their converts before baptizing them and inviting them into church membership…PB

Here you are inserting YOUR particular systems and methods making them normative – which can also be a form of idolatry.

All of these things:
Reformed view of Scripture
Forms of church governance
Expository Preaching
Examining baptism candidates
Church membership
There are all extra-biblical culturally developed practices that may be fine… but you are elevating them to the standard of normative.

So who is being effected by their culture?

It is not naive to say that there is something shockingly wrong with modern christianity- it would be naive to say that there is nothing wrong with it! – PB

Agreed – that is why I went out of my way to say that there are issues with today’s “American Christianity.”

I would remind the author that during [the liberal swing cause by modernism in (predominately) New England over 150 years ago] it was those who preached the Bible unapologetically, without being given to modernist proclivities sparked the first and second great awakenings in America and abroad. They didn’t worry about the opinions of the modernists, or the liberals. They worried about being pleasing to God rather than man. Anytime we elevate a tradition or the spirit of an age )modernism, post-modernism) over God, it is idolatry. – PB

Again, I agree. Yet, it was modernism that they were bucking – that’s my point. You and som many of the others tend to mock post-modernity, lamenting the good ‘ol days as if modernity was a friend to Christianity – that was my point.