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	<title>Comments on: Siding with Atheists</title>
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	<description>Engaging the depths of God and life in the Kingdom</description>
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		<title>By: Rick Frueh</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-93181</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Frueh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 02:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-93181</guid>
		<description>The new heart hears music unplayed and sees glory unrevealed. Illuminated by faith alone the lone believer must succumb to its calling, wholly dependent upon the unseen promise of a life to come. Tethered to and yet free from here, the Christ traveler continues safe on this resurrected journey of faith. His missteps are woven into this journey by the wisdom of His Guide Who knows his plight and plans his way.

The victory hides in utter defeat, and the glory is covered in blood. Suffering is a step and persecution is a crown. Do not despair you pilgrims, the Lord of the Harvest will bring in His sheaves and reward His laborers far greater than they deserve. The King of All knows no slumber and has no weakness, and worry is foreign to Him. The end is the beginning, and the road to the City of God is paved with the branches of humility and love.

Trust not in the ways and words of men, but incline your ears to hear the steps of blind soldiers that carry out the divine will but who know not Who they slay. Who can separate us from this crimson covered act of love? If God Himself gives this kind of gift, what indeed will He withhold from those who receive it? This holy massacre reveals a love whose strength is without limits and whose length is without measure. 

The grace that pours from these veins can and does cover the vilest among us, and this bloody shepherd knows who are His and answers not to the inspections of men. Walk through the door of faith once more, reacquaint yourself with His redemption, and you will find the room of grace without walls. Rejoice in His blood and revel in His sufferings for He has won. We have not won, He alone has risen victorious and we are made sharers in a victory that was not ours and a suffering that we had indeed caused.   

Does it seem like a fairy tale to you? Oh, but it is! The story we tell today is a pitiful narrative told by sinful lips and finite minds. One day this fairy tale will vanish in the glory that cannot be described, and the reality will eclipse the fable. And on that day, in His glorious presence, we all will consider ourselves grateful fools as we see the ignorance of our best preaching, our best teaching, and our best understandings. 

So do not despair, we play today in a sandbox of our own making, but one day we will be covered in the skin of glory which is Christ Himself, and we will be like Him. But until that day, let us keep looking forward together, to thirst and to hunger for that day, no, to thirst and to hunger for Him alone. He has made us one, with all our faults and misguided certainties; He has made us one…in Him, by the fellowship of His sufferings and the power of His resurrection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new heart hears music unplayed and sees glory unrevealed. Illuminated by faith alone the lone believer must succumb to its calling, wholly dependent upon the unseen promise of a life to come. Tethered to and yet free from here, the Christ traveler continues safe on this resurrected journey of faith. His missteps are woven into this journey by the wisdom of His Guide Who knows his plight and plans his way.</p>
<p>The victory hides in utter defeat, and the glory is covered in blood. Suffering is a step and persecution is a crown. Do not despair you pilgrims, the Lord of the Harvest will bring in His sheaves and reward His laborers far greater than they deserve. The King of All knows no slumber and has no weakness, and worry is foreign to Him. The end is the beginning, and the road to the City of God is paved with the branches of humility and love.</p>
<p>Trust not in the ways and words of men, but incline your ears to hear the steps of blind soldiers that carry out the divine will but who know not Who they slay. Who can separate us from this crimson covered act of love? If God Himself gives this kind of gift, what indeed will He withhold from those who receive it? This holy massacre reveals a love whose strength is without limits and whose length is without measure. </p>
<p>The grace that pours from these veins can and does cover the vilest among us, and this bloody shepherd knows who are His and answers not to the inspections of men. Walk through the door of faith once more, reacquaint yourself with His redemption, and you will find the room of grace without walls. Rejoice in His blood and revel in His sufferings for He has won. We have not won, He alone has risen victorious and we are made sharers in a victory that was not ours and a suffering that we had indeed caused.   </p>
<p>Does it seem like a fairy tale to you? Oh, but it is! The story we tell today is a pitiful narrative told by sinful lips and finite minds. One day this fairy tale will vanish in the glory that cannot be described, and the reality will eclipse the fable. And on that day, in His glorious presence, we all will consider ourselves grateful fools as we see the ignorance of our best preaching, our best teaching, and our best understandings. </p>
<p>So do not despair, we play today in a sandbox of our own making, but one day we will be covered in the skin of glory which is Christ Himself, and we will be like Him. But until that day, let us keep looking forward together, to thirst and to hunger for that day, no, to thirst and to hunger for Him alone. He has made us one, with all our faults and misguided certainties; He has made us one…in Him, by the fellowship of His sufferings and the power of His resurrection.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-93179</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 02:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-93179</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t tell you how amazing is the grace of God! To see that kind of response from Erik is truly a work of God&#039;s Holy Spirit. 

Here&#039;s another &lt;a href=&quot;http://aarondailey.net/2009/04/09/a-letter-to-pastorinaboxcom/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;.

It is a blessing to see such healing taking place. May all of us be so willing as Erik to be forgiving of others. May we learn as much about grace as Erik has. 

God be praised!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t tell you how amazing is the grace of God! To see that kind of response from Erik is truly a work of God&#8217;s Holy Spirit. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another <a href="http://aarondailey.net/2009/04/09/a-letter-to-pastorinaboxcom/" rel="nofollow">link</a>.</p>
<p>It is a blessing to see such healing taking place. May all of us be so willing as Erik to be forgiving of others. May we learn as much about grace as Erik has. </p>
<p>God be praised!!!</p>
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		<title>By: iggy</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-93175</link>
		<dc:creator>iggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-93175</guid>
		<description>Thanks Erik... that is very refreshing! 

Blessings!

iggy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Erik&#8230; that is very refreshing! </p>
<p>Blessings!</p>
<p>iggy</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Frueh</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-93172</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Frueh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-93172</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Erik.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Erik.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-93167</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-93167</guid>
		<description>Jerry,

I&#039;d like to apologize &lt;b&gt;publicly&lt;/b&gt; for my harsh opinions about Pastor Ben Dailey&#039;s idea of reaching the unconverted. I really feel like I crossed the line.

&lt;em&gt;Humbly in Christ,&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;b&gt;- Erik&lt;/b&gt;

Here is my public apology:

http://kowalker.com/2009/04/08/my-public-apology-to-ben-dailey/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to apologize <b>publicly</b> for my harsh opinions about Pastor Ben Dailey&#8217;s idea of reaching the unconverted. I really feel like I crossed the line.</p>
<p><em>Humbly in Christ,</em></p>
<p><b>- Erik</b></p>
<p>Here is my public apology:</p>
<p><a href="http://kowalker.com/2009/04/08/my-public-apology-to-ben-dailey/" rel="nofollow">http://kowalker.com/2009/04/08/my-public-apology-to-ben-dailey/</a></p>
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		<title>By: nc</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-92925</link>
		<dc:creator>nc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-92925</guid>
		<description>51: Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>51: Well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris L</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-2/#comment-92912</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-92912</guid>
		<description>EVD,

What Jerry is pointing out is that Erik appears to be falling into the old trap of &quot;the enemy of my enemy is my friend&quot;, not that ADM&#039;s are atheists (though one might be able to argue that, functionally, they have no belief in the Holy Spirit, at the very least).

I don&#039;t see this so much as a &quot;Guilt-by-Association&quot; swipe being taken by Jerry (which is what I suspect you are suggesting), but rather I see this as Jerry pointing out the pragmatism being exhibited in citing an atheist&#039;s ridiculing of this pastor as something &#039;good&#039;, particularly when there would be all sorts of cries of GBA if the shoe were on the other foot...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EVD,</p>
<p>What Jerry is pointing out is that Erik appears to be falling into the old trap of &#8220;the enemy of my enemy is my friend&#8221;, not that ADM&#8217;s are atheists (though one might be able to argue that, functionally, they have no belief in the Holy Spirit, at the very least).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see this so much as a &#8220;Guilt-by-Association&#8221; swipe being taken by Jerry (which is what I suspect you are suggesting), but rather I see this as Jerry pointing out the pragmatism being exhibited in citing an atheist&#8217;s ridiculing of this pastor as something &#8216;good&#8217;, particularly when there would be all sorts of cries of GBA if the shoe were on the other foot&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Miller</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-92911</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-92911</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;By way of clarification, rather than trying to get into debate, this statement is not true. Think of Ephesus or Philippi for starters.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well, in Ephesus, the local craftsmen got mad at Paul and started a riot because they were afraid they were going to lose money.  Paul didn&#039;t directly confront these people looking for confrontation.  Actually, Paul received a warning from one of the local officials looking out for him.

In Philippi, Paul and Silas were thrown into prison after the encounter with the demon-possessed girl.  They were actually thrown into prison because the owner of the slave girl was upset by the prospect of losing money (notice a theme here?).  After Paul and Silas were miraculously freed from the prison, the officials were quite worried because they didn&#039;t realize Paul was a Roman citizen.

In any case, these incidents weren&#039;t because Paul was trying to be provocative.  It was because of a series of events that came as a result of people following Jesus.  It also came because both these cities had large Jewish populations, and there had been some tensions between the Jews and Romans for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>By way of clarification, rather than trying to get into debate, this statement is not true. Think of Ephesus or Philippi for starters.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, in Ephesus, the local craftsmen got mad at Paul and started a riot because they were afraid they were going to lose money.  Paul didn&#8217;t directly confront these people looking for confrontation.  Actually, Paul received a warning from one of the local officials looking out for him.</p>
<p>In Philippi, Paul and Silas were thrown into prison after the encounter with the demon-possessed girl.  They were actually thrown into prison because the owner of the slave girl was upset by the prospect of losing money (notice a theme here?).  After Paul and Silas were miraculously freed from the prison, the officials were quite worried because they didn&#8217;t realize Paul was a Roman citizen.</p>
<p>In any case, these incidents weren&#8217;t because Paul was trying to be provocative.  It was because of a series of events that came as a result of people following Jesus.  It also came because both these cities had large Jewish populations, and there had been some tensions between the Jews and Romans for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris L</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-92910</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-92910</guid>
		<description>Actually, Paul was not run out of town in Ephesus, and it was not his preaching that got him in trouble.

It was an idol-seller whose business was being impacted who got upset, and the &#039;clerk/mayor&#039; of Ephesus said of the Christians:

&lt;blockquote&gt;You have brought these men here, &lt;strong&gt;though they have neither robbed temples nor blasphemed our goddess&lt;/strong&gt; (emphasis mine)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree, though, that the Philippi expulsion was caused by Gentiles - again for a profit motive, not a religious one.

Still, the primary grief caused to Paul and others came from the religious Jews in Asia Minor, not the gentiles.  Which was Phil&#039;s point...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Paul was not run out of town in Ephesus, and it was not his preaching that got him in trouble.</p>
<p>It was an idol-seller whose business was being impacted who got upset, and the &#8216;clerk/mayor&#8217; of Ephesus said of the Christians:</p>
<blockquote><p>You have brought these men here, <strong>though they have neither robbed temples nor blasphemed our goddess</strong> (emphasis mine)</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree, though, that the Philippi expulsion was caused by Gentiles &#8211; again for a profit motive, not a religious one.</p>
<p>Still, the primary grief caused to Paul and others came from the religious Jews in Asia Minor, not the gentiles.  Which was Phil&#8217;s point&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Van Dyken</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2009/04/07/siding-with-atheists/comment-page-1/#comment-92908</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Van Dyken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://christianresearchnetwork.info/?p=2650#comment-92908</guid>
		<description>Jerry,

Have it as you like it.  I have understood all along the point that you were trying to make.  If you fail to realize your own false statements, misrepresentations, and logical leaps, that is up to you.  Your &quot;try this again in English&quot; comment is condescending and misses the point.  It is you that has been unwilling to hold yourself accountable to your own words written in English.  

Chris L,

Don&#039;t look now, your extreme bias is showing.  You not only overlook Jerry&#039;s purposeful mistatements (some would call them lies), but you also ignore his logical fallacies.  You extend a level of grace to him that he is clearly unwilling to extend to others.  But of course its very understandable, as he&#039;s on your team.  I have read a good number of things that you have written, so I refuse to believe that you are too dense to see the many problems with this post and its subsequent defense.  Your willingness to overlook them speaks loudly about the true puropse of this watchblog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry,</p>
<p>Have it as you like it.  I have understood all along the point that you were trying to make.  If you fail to realize your own false statements, misrepresentations, and logical leaps, that is up to you.  Your &#8220;try this again in English&#8221; comment is condescending and misses the point.  It is you that has been unwilling to hold yourself accountable to your own words written in English.  </p>
<p>Chris L,</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t look now, your extreme bias is showing.  You not only overlook Jerry&#8217;s purposeful mistatements (some would call them lies), but you also ignore his logical fallacies.  You extend a level of grace to him that he is clearly unwilling to extend to others.  But of course its very understandable, as he&#8217;s on your team.  I have read a good number of things that you have written, so I refuse to believe that you are too dense to see the many problems with this post and its subsequent defense.  Your willingness to overlook them speaks loudly about the true puropse of this watchblog.</p>
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