2Thess 2:
9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Did I just type in a hoax quote?
There is no sovereign God in your blogosphere.
Who do you think you are?
Bite me; and you can quote me accurately on that.

Being honest here… is Chris P a real person or is he just kidding?

I think James would support the OP and comment on Chris P’s addition in a single entry:

Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.

#7 – Too bad – bite him.

I will bite you, but if you repent I will refrain from chewing.

I repent. I guess I am no longer on moderation.

PB,

I have talked to one of your “disciples” who has a sick and perverted concept of reconciliation… in fact it is so contrary to the bible you should be the last to talk about anyone else as far as false teaching.

iggy

A new entry for the museum of idolatry

What with Chris P’s pic so prominently displayed, dancers, pictures of bands on stages in front of people in theatre style seating, full on lighting rigs, etc. etc.

sounds like you’re a candidate for “goat herder”, Chris P.

You’ve got a veritable celebrity driven, circus church going on…

“bite me” indeed. hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Even my 14 year old can see it.

PB,
I grew up in a very legalistic, fault-finding church.
At 14, I could spot “heresy” and other bogeymen at a distance and dispute them as well.

I was not even saved yet.

Our environment will contribute to what we “see.”

I’m not saying your son does not have discernment or cannot spy error. But it’s possible that it is easier for him to “see” things due to the influence you are having in his life.

Shalom

Praise you and your 14 year old, PB.

Praise you…

PB,

Seriously…you say things like “I repent” for simply making a mistake.

It’s not a big deal to still think you were in moderation.

It’s the need to “go there” and cast things in those kinds of terms that just is so weird to me.

You don’t need to “repent”. The fact that you have to saddle things with that level of intensity really makes me sad for you.

You say it’s about grace, but a simple mistake that has nothing to do with morals, christian witness, etc. is suddenly in the “repent” category.

So strange.
So baffling.
So very, very sad.

Chris P is simply over the top and he’s getting pretty close to Paul Proctor’s category for me.

As I said on the other thread, I don’t believe the Chris P who comments here is the same one who blogs elsewhere. I think they are two different people. I kind of feel bad for him because his blog has some good stuff on it.

Pastorboy: I am amazed that I can be tagged on a blog, yet I am in moderation and cannot respond.

Interesting, kind of like some of your friends that don’t allow comments when they tag folks? Yet despite moderation, you were allowed to make your point.

PB,

Seriously, I think it’s cool to want to be at peace and all…

but just an “oooops, I guess I’m actually out of moderation now. Thanks, guys.” would do.

It’s cool…

The deeper principle of Chris’ post is that infromation influences people, even if that information is wrong. Additionally, tone and context are often used to shade the truth.

PB: Words mean things.

RA: Maybe you could explain these words, pastorboy:

“The hate that Richard Abanes has for Christians is despicible.” — pastorboy

Uhm, just fyi, I don’t hate Christians. Now, what do you say?
______
PB: “I made a false accusation. . . . I needed to repent publicly, for I made a false claim.”( #25)

RA: I just thought I’d point out the above remark, which is also a false accusation. Again, I ask, now what?

RAbanes

I have a confession. I am reading here of late solely for the entertainment value. I think there was an article about that a while back. Sort of reminds of the stoning scene in “The Life of Brian”. Seemingly, there is but a “Cast of 1o’s” of late and truthfully the same ole regulars that lobe invectives back and forth could save a lot of energy by just cutting and pasting responses from one article to another. I did take a hiatus for a couple of weeks, but I’m addicted and keep getting drawn back in by all the high **drama**. You guys are truly intelligent, sharp and witty. Great fun this! I even lob a few myself sometimes and oh what fun, but I’m strictly an amateur in comparison and know my limitations.

I’m convinced that **righteous indignation** is a disease (RID)which infects all indiscriminately and clouds the mind of normally sane and caring Christians. We come back to a discussion days or weeks later and wonder “did I write that? Wow.” So anyway, A+ for entertainment guys. Keep up the ______ work.

#34

THAT was funny actually.

Thanks, right back at ya…

Steve Camp is now removed completely from CRN blog rolls.

Sigh…..

RA

Richard,

PB will repent over silly things but overlook the important things like forgiveness and not bearing false witness… and will accuse those he victimizes.

He is truly a modern day “modernist-Pharisee”.

Sorry that should be “PB teaches a conditional reconciliation”

chris: BTW I’m not opening up this “can of worms” again.

RA: ROFL!!!!! Please, please, please, please DON’T!!

RA

Coop – The submissions form works (in capturing suggestions), but breaks (when it tries to email us). I’ve added your article to a submission on the main page.

Thanks!

Pastorboy, I am assuming, however, that you, Ken, Ingrid, etc., etc., etc. (insert favorite ODM)….DON’T hate he various “clown pastors” who lead “fake churches” full of “unregenerate” (not to mention all those painted whores of Sodom).

In other words, you can basically say anything you want to say using any words you want, make whatever accusations you wish to make, accuse whomever you want to accuse, raise false accusations by the dozen — and that is not hate.

But anyone who dares call you to accountability or anyone who dares criticize your approach, language, and/or accuracy is guilty of hate. Hmmm. Interesting.

You note: “You better take that plank out of your eye and repent and get right.”

I have a scripture for you: “But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Matthew 12:36-37).

RA

I believe this called “crickets”

BTW PB, I have stepped over the line with you… and that was because of your own words and that often you state unbiblical things as truth… your view on reconciliation as represented by someone who is your disciple who posts here bears witness to the false doctrine you pass as truth… you teach error and are a false teacher. Again, you are judged by you OWN words… here and later before Jesus.

iggy

If anyone is interested, here’s the latest installment by ODMer Paul Proctor of what can only bean apparently new great Christian Fiction novel series. he certainly can’t be serious.

His fear-inspiring article is almost as good as This Present Darkness by Peretti:

“The enemies of Christ have clearly risen to great power in this country and are, even as I write, busy endeavoring finish off what remains of the church for the purpose of replacing it with a god and religion more suitable for global government.”

I certainly got goosebumps.

RA

My moderation is screwing up things… so it is comment 55. Just blame it all on me…

It is very unfrortunate that many of the ODMs employ such aristocratic and abrasive communication techniques since they often have legitimate issues that get lost in the verbal poison. Take for instance the Phyllis Tickle and Peter Rollins speaking engagements at Mars Hill. Someone please tell me either are saying here.

I have now listened to both several times and I find their teachings philosophical rubbish. A merry-go-round of ascriptural musings that have little if any resemblence to Christianity, at least as it concerns the teachings of the New Testament.

“God is doing a new thing” is not carte blanche for accepting all things new. Solomon warned us about new truth, and since the canan was complete anything “new” must be suspect until it ligns up with Scripture.

All these modern musings, parables, Jewish fables, philosophical stories, and emerging schools of thought that make little reference to the cross and resurrection, to say nothing of the blood, are tickling the ears of the modern sophisticates, the majority of which are between 20 to 40.

I await someone to tie in Biblically what Tickle and Rollins seem excited about in their mutual “how spiritually preciant you are” episode.

#61
Does that mean you’re not going to answer Brendt’s question? Figures

Sorry…

Never heard of Phyllis before but I think her last nice has a lot to do with her calling. As for Peter, he’s just out in left field.

“nice” should be “name”

chris – I have listened to her in more than one Youtube video and I find her abstract and mystical. I have yet to hear her or Rollins mention the blood or the cross at all.

The 4 part video of Tickle’s interview of Rollins is a fantasy land. I admit, I live on another theological planet. And I am not part of any “lynch mob”.

I am almost overwhelmed when I think of what people are doing to the gospel of Jesus Christ. These are not new and fresh expressions of that glorious gospel truth, no, these are philosophical fables that seem so deep and penetrating and yet are linguistic caverns that are empty of redemptive truth.

Repairing the wrongs that abound in this world is a noble venture but without the saving message of faith in Jesus Christ it becomes the offering of Cain. What separates us as believing followers of the Lord Jesus Christ is the gospel, and all our good deeds must be unmistakably tethered to that gospel or we risk becoming the servants of needs and not servants of Christ.

Who could have ever forseen the humanitarian shift that is now taking place, and presented as the gospel ministry of Jesus in and of itself. And the implication is that the preaching of the gospel of Christ cannot be considered the unfettered conduit to eternal life, it must be expressed through works of God’s kingdom.

Men like me have spoken extensively against self righteous verbiage that attacks everything in its path, and some like me have attempted to give those within the emergent movement the widest consideration of grace. But it is evident that the train continues down the tracks, gaining momentum, and unencumbered by clear Scriptural gospel truth. And the issues of homosexuality and others like it now seem peripheral, because we now have arrived at the age old question that asks, “What must I do to be saved?”.

And as much as can be ascertained by decipering some of the philisophical verbiage, men and women can be eternally saved without ever trusting Christ by faith in the same way as millions have done throughout the formers ages. An awakening to the physical needs and sufferings of people is the evidence that one has been “born again” into God’s kingdom.

This, my friends, is not Christianty. These are well crafted fables that excite the flesh and soothe the conscience but have no redemption in them at all.

I usually don’t have the time to listen to videos nor read everything that’s going on out there but, I did have time now to listen to the Tickle, Rollins videos.

All I came away with was a scratching of my head…..being an old fart on the verge of sixty I’ve seen many things, epiphanies , revelations come and go. Time will tell.

But, I came away with this on the videos: They don’t want to nail truth, it’s not about pinning down some right answer and the kicker for me, (these all being said by Rollins) it’s not about right reading of text.

It’s those thoughts that gave us the “Health and Wealther’s” The “NEW” apostles/ prophets that are on the scene now( Take a peak at Elijah List, if you haven’t already). And NUMEROUS number of cults out there that operate under the guise of being Christians.

I certainly can’t pass judgment on Rollins or Tickle based on just those four videos but they did leave me with an uneasy feeling deep in my Spirit.

One other small point, the need that some people to have to apologize for western Christianity, ( there was a small reference like that from Tickle). Albeit it was just a tiny piece in that video that DOES seem to be something that fuels the current of some of this…..

Just an observation on my part, something I don’t do often…..

ooops, accidentally posted this on other thread. Here it is where it belongs….

_______BEGIN

Now we have Lighthouse Trails going after Calvary Chapel…..seriously.

From the Lighthouse – the blog of Lighthouse Trails Research

My response…In Defense of Calvary Chapel: Say No to Lighthouse Trails.

So sad.

RA

I don’t always agree with everything that is CC, or Chuck Smith, or …… whatever. But I love, respect, and often recommend CC.

And I have a special place in my heart for CC because that was where I really first started to grow in Christ — under Raul Ries back when he was in West Covina. I was baptized at Raul’s church and that was the first place where I ever actually served in a church ministry — i.e., the music ministry.

TBH, attacks like this from LTR (or any ODM) on CC actually makes me even more upset than attacks on Rick Warren because leveling charges like these against CC is just so far out there I have no words. It’s absurd to the extreme…near lunacy, imho.

For all its faults and frailties that are natural and human, you just can’t get any more traditionally Bible-centered than the CCs.

RA

When you start hearing junk about kinetic energy and ‘Lilith’ (whoever that is) it’s time to shut it off.

First, if you had listened to the video, Rollins explained who Lilith was… so I wonder if you really listened. And shut it off because he used a Jewish fable as an illuatration, really, even when he proceeded to deny it’s reality? What other illustrations are off limits?

Maybe we should stick to one link per thread…

Some of the verbiage, research, and methodology of the ODMs has been well documented here ad infinitum. But when obvious departures from the Christian faith are ignored and in some cases defended, it undermines the objectivity and credibility of the entire blog, or at least of the individuals who refuse to speak directly to that issue with uncomfortable objectivity.

It is a serious issue, and begs the question “Who watches the watchblog watchers?” It is completely germaine to this subject and constitutes a wider application of the uneasy spirit of which Scotty spoke. The obvious abrogations of basic Christian truths in the writings and videos of Peter Rollins especially and Tickle as well are so severe and so lethal that is to me personally extremely disquieting to see such tepid responses if not outright ambivilance to say nothing of mounting a tortured defense.

To me this trumps any harmful verbiage offered by Ingrid or creative hyperbole written by Ken, this indicates a genuine lack of theological discernment on the part of any mature believer. And if an enjoyment of other perspectives by men like Bell obscure any objectivity in confronting these philsophical deceptions from Peter Rollins and Tickle, then it has become all too obvious that personal loyalties have triumphed over the loyalty to divine truth and specifically the gospel itself.

I take no joy or satisfaction from speaking to this issue, but these errors have become so pronounced and unvarnished that even the most charitable among us cannot help but speak what they believe God has placed in their heart. If men like Rollins are being welcomed and embraced to disseminate extreme falshoods and fables from evangelical pulpits,then they are no longer evangelicaland they have become conduits of the deepest and most destructive errors.

My heart has been heavy for days because I not only see clearly this tragedy, I have affections for the people who write and visit this blog. Perhaps I am an old man who is exhibiting the last gasps of a passing Christian culture, and perhaps I cannot find the resources within myself to look to the future horizons of the coming spiritual landscape.

But perhaps I am seeing the present scenario much too clearly.

Wow..the link didn’t work. It is Tony Jones who will be our very special guest.

Anybody who can watch that video and see the Gospel believes a different Gospel.

This may be true… I think it may be that we who understand the video put more faith in God being Sovereign and trust in His ability to save others… even more that anything more we can do ourselves.

In fact I think it is those that understand the video that can listen and follow the Spirit in His leading as opposed to pushing thorugh their own agenda just to appease their God by “preaching” at people…

So maybe, But I beleiver that one is more bible based, and the other more man based… and from what I have read of you.PB you are very man based in your faith and preaching….

Those that have ears to hear and eyes to see…

iggy

#84

I mentioned a while back, Pastorboy, about not offending people before they hear the message. Based on what I read of you, I really can’t get excited about listening to you on this program. So, I doubt that I’ll listen.

Now we have Lighthouse Trails going after Calvary Chapel…..seriously.

From the Lighthouse – the blog of Lighthouse Trails Research

My response…In Defense of Calvary Chapel: Say No to Lighthouse Trails.

So sad.

rabanes,

That’s hilarious and sad because the one time I heard a speaker from Lighthouse Trails speaking about mysticism/emerging churches/Rob Bell/Rick Warren/Other Such Heresies was actually AT a Calvary Chapel.

I’m so confused . . . .

No Rick, you are blind that from the first sentence stated in the video Phyllis states that Truth does not change but our perspective of it does… that is the topic and what you are greatly missing in the conversation.

and THAT is deeply unfortunate as it completely relates to what I wrote and to your OWN blindness.

iggy

John you said,

#51

I answered that question Joe.

I said I post your name because it is about your Pastor.

But you haven’t shared with us what it is you hope to gain by tagging me in posts that are about my pastor and not about me.

Paul C,

You guys are making my point… the Truth does not change, but our perspective does… and you are still just playing out the parts as if this was the scenario I laid out.

In fact, there is much to drink in what is stated in the video… but unless you do not have ears to hear and eyes to see you miss it and stay parched.

There was a major paradigm shift in thinking about slavery and it being biblically acceptable. Now we would be shocked and rightfully so, if someone we knew had a slave! Even Secular society caught up with the Christians who fought for the freedom of slaves and the end of slavery.

Now we are at another major paradigm shift and some of you will still be fighting for the slave books instead of moving into the new paradigm of thought.

iggy

To say “truth doesn’t change, just our perception of it” is just a clever way to redefine the changing of truth. Anyone can say anything they wish, but one must test the fruits rather than accept what anyone says at face value.

The Mormons say they just have a different perspective on truth, and the same for the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Christian Scientists. And if Rollin’s and Tickle’s Christianity is the correct/corrected version, then all the proceeding centuries have preached and lived a false gospel that ignored the needs of people and operated within a self made doctrinal framework that missed the core of what God’s kingdom was all about.

And it is time men like Rollins and Bell are honest about the former history of evangelical Christianity. At least the ODMs are open and honest about how they see this new emergent Christianity, but the emergent leaders should speak plainly about the implications of their new shift in teaching and focus. Men like Luther, Zwingli, Huss, Knox, Wesley, Whitefield, Moody, and thousands of others missed the mark and at the expense of spreading God’s justice upon the earth they counted noses in their evangelistic fervor.

They cannot just say the church has grown in wisdom or we see the same truth differently, that may be enough for people with shallow spiritual foundations or believers who are vunerable because of a disenchantment with the present evangelical church. But in reality this is not just a shift, this is a new religion. Both representations cannot be Christianity.

It is not my intention to be unkind in any way, but the deception has picked up speed with astonishing openness. And the conference called “Christianity 21” sponsered by Doug Paggit is one more amazing revelation of how spiritual mysticism and even nonesense is being offered as Christian. And Tony Jones calls these “voices” provocative and innovative, which is a clever way of avoiding the obvious.

Provocative and innovation is when the established truths of Scripture are used to challenge us all out of spiritual slumber into a new and dynamic expression of redemptive Christianity. Our calling, our focus, and our pursuit is the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the entire world. As we go we should help the downtrodden and poor, but that is the overflow of God’s gospel not the focus.

The quintessential predicament that binds the poor is not their financial situation, it is their spiritual condition. And to realign Christianity to address the earthly plight of the downtrodden without openly sharing the gospel of redemption is to hate their souls.

And when Rollins was asked how he would resond to someone who came up to him after he spoke and said, “Who is God and how can I meet Him?”, Rollins responded by saying,

“I wouldn’t answer that question. I would suggest that person go and feed the hungry, and help the poor, and generally be a help to the downtrodden people of this world and see if you meet God”.

That is about as deep as heresy gets.

I am #100!

Iggy: the Truth does not change, but our perspective does

In the case of the video, this is just a tidy way of re-inventing /changing “truth” to suit your philosophy.

Now we are at another major paradigm shift and some of you will still be fighting for the slave books instead of moving into the new paradigm of thought.

The “paradigm shifts” are just gift-wrapped philosophies that roll in and then foam out as they reach the shore… it’s nothing new in the sense that people – especially PhD’s in philosophy – are never content with the simplicity that is in Christ. It’s just a fad.

Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from wise and intelligent people and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, because this is what was pleasing to you.

Iggy, what you are so enthralled about is the wondrous garb of the emperor. The problem is that he has no clothes. Sometimes it takes honesty and forthrightness to point this out.

PB,

I was not saying you now have that view of slavery, but in the paradigm you would have fought against the change then as you do now and I used you philosophical arguments… but you are just too stupid to figure that out… and I mean that… you are just stupid beyond measure… I know that is not kind… but sometimes the truth will set you free!

PB for you… It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it…

I guess that is the acceptable standard here at this site now as some can call me delude and blind and go unrebuked…

Rick, of all people I cannot understand your ignorance in such a stupid thing as saying that Truth cannot change us and our view of it as we grow in Christ… in essence that is what you are stating…

I guess you deny the renewing of the mind the bible speaks of…

God gives grace to the humble and ears and eyes to see… while he resists the proud and leaves THEM in their delusion and rejection of truth…

I see clearly where you guys are… as I see what IS being stated…

iggy

BTW: If PB agrees with you; you most likely are very far off the reservation.

Barak Obama – Notre Dame commencement speech:

In this world of competing claims about what is right and what is true, have confidence in the values with which you’ve been raised and educated. Be unafraid to speak your mind when those values are at stake. Hold firm to your faith and allow it to guide you on your journey. Stand as a lighthouse.

But remember too that the ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt. It is the belief in things not seen. It is beyond our capacity as human beings to know with certainty what God has planned for us or what He asks of us, and those of us who believe must trust that His wisdom is greater than our own.

This doubt should not push us away from our faith. But it should humble us. It should temper our passions, and cause us to be wary of self-righteousness. It should compel us to remain open, and curious, and eager to continue the moral and spiritual debate that began for so many of you within the walls of Notre Dame. And within our vast democracy, this doubt should remind us to persuade through reason, through an appeal whenever we can to universal rather than parochial principles, and most of all through an abiding example of good works, charity, kindness, and service that moves hearts and minds.

Gordo,

This is exactly when and how to use discernment in a statement made by someone like the president… and this is my reasoning.

1. When we listen to a politician, we are listening to speech writers that have the only goal of making the president sound good.

2. Jesus stated: “by their fruit you will recognize them” and in discerning a statement like this, We need to look and see if the “fruit” produced is a product of repentance. Meaning, are the works being done by that person works of “rightness of God” or out of their own will.

3. Words mean something… yet when a Muppet mouths words, they lose their power. While I agree with Obama’s words, His actions, such as making USA citizens pay for oversea abortions and showing no grace toward the previous administration show me that personally I do not think he means the words he mouths. It becomes like someone who claims “I am a poor sinner and saved by Grace” and then bear false witness against others attack other poor sinners who have not been lead to Grace and they have. IOW’s they are graceless and merciless and show no ability to give forgiveness, grace, mercy and love to others… their words begin to mean nothing more and are annoying loud gong.

4. I am not against Obama… I felt this way with Bush also… and really the “do-nothing” Republicans did exactly that… nothing… yet they did and do show more grace and forgiveness toward the Democrats than some Democrats have ever shown.

So I see a huge difference between Obama saying this and McLaren or Rollings.

Words do mean something… but only if they are truly followed by actions… and to me, the last real president that wrote his own speeches from his own heart was Abe Lincoln who wrote the Gettysburg address on a napkins as he rode the train to speak. I sometimes wonder if the napkin had as many tears on it as the words he wrote.

iggy

For the record – After Iggy made a comment that had something to do with slavery, I said he was blind to the issue about which I was dealing.

I still do not see any slavery connection.

This statement:

“Rick, of all people I cannot understand your ignorance in such a stupid thing as saying that Truth cannot change us and our view of it as we grow in Christ… in essence that is what you are stating…”

is a strawman since I said no such thing. If anyone feels that Tickle and Rollins respresent redemptive Christianity than they are entitled to that opinion.

All: The story of slavery was the idea of Truth not changing but we as Christians being changed by and seeing truth clearer… I was talking more of the paradigm shifts that have already happen such as one time seeing slavery as acceptable by even Christians and now seeing it for what it really is… evil… yet your statements here against me concerning Rollins and Tyckle all sounded much like the arguments that Christians used to justify the evil of slavery. They justification of the “hole” in scripture that was not seen at the time that then later was seen clearly. When I said I see it clearly you said I was blind and deluded… (which is ironic if you ask me… that those that CAN”T see are not the blind ones and the one that CAN see is blind? LOL! How dumb is that!)

Eugene: I have received notes from people who thought I was not that out of line concerning my being moderated from another thread. I think the ones with thin skin are some of the writers who do not ever seem to apologize but justify their own words and actions that are at times over the line…

Yet it seems that instead of facing that as a man, they would rather moderate me. I stated my comment in the other thread and within that comment ended it… then the dog-pile began and I defended myself. until Chris Lyons and Neil(?) both decided I was the bad guy. During that time I was pointing out two items IN THE POST that as offensive is not more than what I stated…

The real Mr Thin Skin came and then justified that he words and picture were NOT offensive… which was a total laugh.

After that I was placed on moderation without the decency of even being told… again… a slap in the face from some I consider FRIENDS!… the thin skinned ones again are the ones that justify their words and then cowardly put moderation into action with telling me as a friend.

So Eugene… I am not thin skinned… I am angry with the double standard and ODM like behavior that some have started to display and ruin this site.

I am concerned for this site and have stated that a few times… I see it once was a great site that did have a higher standard and now has slipped into ODM mode at least in the commitments. I take some responsibility myself for that, but now think that Chris L and some others are making a mockery of their own standard in their inability to face their own wrongs.

I am calling you guys out to stand on your OWN higher standard and not use me as a scapegoat. Face your own wrongs. I see my moderation as a cover-up of someone else’s inabiltiy to just say sorry to someone else… and that person was in fact… Ingrid who Chris posted as a Harpy.

iggy

Joe,

It is in reference to this post by Chris L.

Which to me even the title though it was explained, was offensive.

Christian P.

So if an ODM moderates someone for stating that they think what they wrote was too much… that is wrong and they are demonized for not being willing to address the topic and issue… it is fine, but if someone does it here it is right to put that person on moderation?

I have not demonized anyone… I am stating that the standards expressed here to be higher are no longer higher… they have fallen. You may not be one personally who had fallen, but to me some have. In fact if I must point this out… by you stating what you have just now stated, you sound much like CRN when the writers there do not call into account Ken Silva for his asinine articles. They use the same defense you just did. “I am not responsible for what others write on CRN, I am only responsible for my own posts.” Again… the standard has fallen.

To censor me… when I did stop and tried to tell others to stop and yet kept coming at me… then to justify what I stated was wrong about the post… and then be moderated without being told…. is just like Mike Ratliff and others who do the same thing…

If you disagree then you may be part of the problem.

I see that this site was better than the ODM… yet now I am seeing it may not be. And that is saying a lot coming from me. To demonize me, for trying to help you to see that the standard is falling is wrong and needs to be addressed.

I have been a huge supporter for this site in the past. I recommend it, link to it and see that in the past it has had great value… but to let it decay into the standards of the ODM’s is saddening and is making me re-think my support of this site.

Again I hope that means something coming from me… if not then I am deluded to think that my friends here give a damn about my opinion and will sadly treat this site as another ODM site.

I am calling you all to re-think, re-group and refocus…

I hope that is clear.

iggy

Rick,

As far as the personal “issues” I may or may not have… I am stating much of this as I have been observing them before the moderation… and are apart from the moderation…

But to be moderated over the issue whether I see that Chris L was overboard about using a Harpy picture for Ingrid and then thinly justifying it was very strange and sad. Let alone not be told I am being moderated… which in my view was just petty and childish.

I am standing on my points here as to how this site has become more like an ODM site in how the writers are allowing people to be handled.

Iggy,

First of all, the issue of responsibility for what is written. I was telling you to read what I have written so that when I tell you there is no cover up, you will know where it is coming from. I also said that we keep each other accountable. That means that we hold each other responsible for what we write. We have a place to do that. And it happens. A lot.

As far as I understood it, you were warned you would be put on moderation and that this was not because you argued with Chris L. Everybody argues with Chris L. The timing of the moderation was due to the writers trying to communicate with each other and hold each other accountable and reconcile with each other while treating others appropriately. Communication takes time.

Give it a week for Chris L. to get home from vacation and then we can clear all of this up.

Also, just because somebody disagrees with you, doesn’t mean that they are a part of the problem. Even lack of interaction doesn’t mean they are part of the problem. Life can be challenging, and most of our writers right now have some very challenging, time consuming, and serious things going on in their lives right now.

Give us time, grace, patience, and love. We shall try to do show you the same as well.

Anybody who can watch that video and see the Gospel believes a different Gospel.

Pure and simple.-PB

I didn’t see the Gospel either… then again, I don’t think that was the subject either…

Neil,

Funny that it did not come after the “warnings” but after I stated the OP was offensive… but whatever… this is getting nowhere and I am very disappointed. Not to mention that I was not told I was in moderation…

Even most ODM’s that allow comments will email a person and tell them they are being moderated… I expected at least more from here.

iggy

Chris…

Unfortunately you need to go and re-read the thread… and you will find you just unintentionally lied about me.

I have even stated I was over the line a couple of times in THIS thread… so… please do not make this any worse that it is. Get the facts straight at least.

I received NO emails concerning that thread except from one fellow writer who thought you guys were over the line… so again… you may have “warned” me in the thread, yet no message was sent stating it had happen… so again I am just supposing you are unintentionally lying as you do not have the facts straight.

Really… I don’t care anymore… and sadly you keep making my points for me as far as justifying the keeping of the lower standard I am decrying.

iggy

If you want to contact me further about this it will have to be through email… I will no longer wade through the hypocrisy of this site.

iggy

…and sadly you keep making my points for me as far as justifying the keeping of the lower standard I am decrying.

…This site has become what the critics of it state it is… no different than they are.

…If you want to contact me further about this it will have to be through email… I will no longer wade through the hypocrisy of this site.

I suppose anything we say at this point will only exacerbate your anger, though I really cannot understand why you have taken this stance. And I say this as someone uninvolved in the original fray.

But comments like those above do not further the discussion and are rather melodramatic.

http://apostasywatch.com/Norrisexposed.htm #131 This article backs up what Phil Naessens has written and talked about Spiritual Pathways Ministries and Dave Norris. There is also evidence of reusing old articles under old writers names and putting them on the current web page under new writers names. I found some old cache articles myself and the evidence is on Phil’s site.

#133 That’s funny Rick I woke up this morning thinking the same thing. I guess it is just the sin nature taking control. Unfortunately the internet breeds this sort of behavior. You can hide behind your computer screen make yourself a web page and give yourself all kinds of inflated titles. Most people want to be just a little better than who they really are. I grew up under the shadow of a brother who was extremely intelligent and had to follow in his footsteps in school. ( He works for NASA in safety control for the Space Shuttle) I would love to have his brain power but I just don’t. I noticed that on the Spiritual Pathways site Bob DeWaay in no longer listed as a guest contributor. Good for them. Yesteday morning I commented on the Spiritual Pathways site on the article Listening to Jesse Duplantis asking where Chuck Swanson had heard Mr. Duplantis in person. He stated that it was at a church that used to meet in the Lafayette Mall. Then yesterday afternoon I commented that the Listening to Jesse Duplantis article was identical to the article of the same name that was written by Rob France in 2007. Rob France is supposedly dead but they both went and heard Jesse Duplantis the previous summer with an unpublished member of his group. By the way Dave Norris answered back to tell me where Chuck Swanson had heard Jesse Duplantis. Now if you go on the site you won’t find my comments or Dave’s. They have mysteriously disappeared. You’ll just have to take my word that this happened. I don’t believe anything on that site including the counter that shows how many people are on site. Christian Research Network is still linking to Spritual Pathways. WHY ???? There is also someone who comments named Alese Brink Davis who lives at the Merriam Webster web page. Are you real Alese? Crazy stuff Rick. Blessings

Correction again. Nathan Cooke wrote the article about Jesse Duplantis. My apologies. I neglected to look at my fact sheet. Actually I can’t keep all the names straight on that site . David Norris, Nathan Cooke, Chuck Swanson, Rod France, Andrew Clarkson , to many alias names to remember. Nothing like me looking like an idiot in public. Oh well. I’m sure it won’t be the last time.

I am orthodocks.