* I do not condone homosexual behavior, I condone reaching out with grace and love.

* Many ODMs are blind to their sin of self righteosness, hedonism, lying, and graceless verbiage, all of which they DO condone and practice.

Just because those issues are regarded as “more sordid” than the others, or “more obvious”, says more about our own cultural idolatries than anything else.

I don’t see greedy people go lobbying saying that greed is a good and okay thing and that we should just accept it.

No they just openly embrace it as though it’s the very hand of God blessing them. GOD BLESS AMERICA…I’ve got 3 cars, a $250,000, and I vacation 4 times a year. I don’t give a damn about the widows and orphans and if I do I just write a check. As long as it doesn’t cause me to have to sacrifice to the point of loss for myself.

The gospel is meant to shape “me” into the image of Christ not to be used as a hammer to bludgeon others.

But let Truth Mercy and Justice flow like a mighty river.

Someone once said:

“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.”

That should be the believer’s Hippocratic Oath.

gimme a break.

Well, if you read their posts you will also see that they are also against such activities of “pastors”. This was one of their cases against TBN and those of the word of faith movement.

So I would say they put effort on this issue aswell.

I would say even ordained pastors can/should be rebuked if they go against scripture, which there are a bunch of like those who proclaim that Jesus is not the only way or those who are openly gay.

And did not Jesus rebuke Pharisees and many others including his own apostles?

Tough love is needed for those “In Christ” who are in the wrong. I support that. From the Discernment blogs I’ve read, they haven’t slandered without reason. They spoke truth as far as I know. Yes, sometimes they over react… but atleast they react! Unlike most of the others out there that just want “unity” even if it outrightly rejects scripture, God’s Word and sometimes even Jesus Christ O.o

By your arguements, you seem to be a decent Christian, though in my humble opinion a bit self-righteous(Sorry! First impressions), though I would complain that your reference to ODM’s hits any and all blogs out there that post on heresy/rejection of scripture. If I were you, a better way would be to post on the things they do in a your “more Christian” way.

“The thing about those other sins you mentioned is the fact that I don’t see greedy people go lobbying saying that greed is a good and okay thing and that we should just accept it.”

You are incorrect. Ask a pastor if he stores up money for himself down the road and he will tell you he does and that God desires us to. Additioanlly, sign up for John MacArthur’s annual $$$$$$ “Christian” cruise where he and his other teachers and singers go for free, get paid to go, sell their CDs, and still receive their significant salaries back at the church.

“Are we not to warn believers of what is false?”

I believe sometimes I do, like here.

“I would rather have ODMs than have heresies spreading throughout the church like wildfire(Even you have to admit, this is true) and changing doctrines.”

It isn’t either/or, we all must strive to exemplify Christ in all we do. My comments are based upon the seeming obsession with certain sins, and the demeaning way lost sinners are addressed. And hypocrisy must be dealt with the orthodox as well as the aberrant.

“Is that not also what they are trying to do?”

Some of them, sure, but there are those who express such arrogance and such self promoting expressions of self righteousness that it does damage to the cause of Christ. This is to say nothing of the blatant compromise of their professions of complementarianism while at the same time encouraging unordained women to demean and rebuke ordained pastors from around the world.

I’m sure you will now agree with me.

The thing about those other sins you mentioned is the fact that I don’t see greedy people go lobbying saying that greed is a good and okay thing and that we should just accept it. That is something we see with homosexuals. So ofcourse, by the laws of physics, naturally, when more force is issued by an opposing force, the only way to counter it is to move more force to counter that other force.

Imagine a circle with equal forces on each side pushing each other. Then a force on one side gets stronger… how do you keep it a circle? Naturally, you have to push harder on that side which is being attacked.

This is my question on your positions of ODMs

Yes, while you may say they are flaws and “unbiblical” in the way they do things, is it not also true that there are barely any other groups out there who try to point out to others their false ways. I would say that it doesn’t matter who points out your flaws, aslong as they are flaws, deal with them.

At the “Do not Judge” comment, would scripture for that more correctly say Do not Judge hypocritically?

Are we not to warn believers of what is false? And if teachers and their teachings are what is false, then it is our duty to tell the believers about it. But the thing is, if you tell someone that Theology A is wrong but do not warn them of Teacher A then what happens? Is there not a chance they will still listen to what Teacher A has to say in the future? I beleive that those who preach the Word Of God incorrectly and mislead many deserve harsher punishments if they refuse to change from their teachings after being confronted correctly. The Apostles said in a letter to the Corinthians that if a beleiver continues to live in sin after being warned constantly, that they are to excommunicate him/expel them from their midst so as to not rot the fruit and not be an embarassment to non-beleivers.

Thus, false doctrine should be dealt with severely.

Also, have you not done what these “ODMs” have? Talk about others of Christianity in an effort to keep what you consider decent beleivers out of their teachings and theology and have thus done what you yourself have ridiculed?

Is that not also what they are trying to do?

On “short theology”, if we let it be, then it will be just that… short theology. Is it not better when we have a chance to change that “short theology” to become more sound that we should take it? Short theology might work, but does that not mean more whole and sound theology would be even better for the soul?

I would rather have ODMs than have heresies spreading throughout the church like wildfire(Even you have to admit, this is true) and changing doctrines.

I can see comments are censored… hopefully you will let this post through as no profane words are here and what I have posted is not in anyway slander…