Rick: It tells you that you can be taught personally the truths of Scripture and you will be held to account, not the teacher you “follow”.

True and True. However, teachers are held to a higher standard in Scripture and will be held more accountable just because of the negative affect they can have on their disciples. Teachers are still divinely mandated in scripture.

OK class – What does that tell you?

It tells you that you can be taught personally the truths of Scripture and you will be held to account, not the teacher you “follow”.

I think sometimes it’s political…

sometimes it’s the work of the translator to approximate and the preacher to make sure s/he does the contextual work.

Like the passage in Galatians that says it is for freedom that Christ has set us free.

Well, the problem there isn’t philological at the level of the Koine greek when I hear a sermon (true story) where the pastor goes on a rant about how that verse was written for us and the witness of American culture for liberty.

The problem isn’t the greek, it’s the English and the irresponsible semantic/contextual transfer of a enlightenment Lockean political idea of freedom into the english translation of a text wherein such ideas and conceptions do not obtain at any level.

You know, I always wondered whenever someone says “well in the Greek the word **really** means “this” ‘, if it really means “this” instead of “that” why didn’t all those scholars on the translation team have it say “this” instead of “that”?

And some of these contextual helps bring to light mis-readings that have been done by those purely relying on English translations with no outside aids to ensure we aren’t reading the text in a vacuum.

On a lesser offense, sometimes readings emphasize secondary or tertiary “principles” or concerns as the essential meaning of texts.

The sad thing is that people and communities that claim to be the only ones who actually care about the Bible, “uphold the Word of God”, etc. etc. are the very ones most guilty of these things. Because they claim that moral highground, they deserve more criticism when they’re lazy with the Word–especially by spiritualizing that laziness with appeals to “The Holy Spirit”…not saying that’s what happened in this thread…but just say’n..

I think there is an unhealthy lust for ‘new’ in religion, especially Christianity, today. This explains our rapid embracing and discarding of any new fad that pops up and then down again.

I don’t disagree with this, really. Although, I’d say the thrust for everything to be the newest and best was something that really reached it’s pinnacle in the Boomer generation. I actually think that’s something that turned off many of the children of Boomers to Christianity. If faith is presented in terms of keeping up with MTV or whatever, it will lose its appeal just as quickly.

What I see people my age and younger wanting now is something that isn’t just a fad. So the “new” they are after is actually the old. It’s for the same reason Nirvana became popular in the early ’90s. People were sick of the over-produced, hyped-up stuff studios were putting out, and they wanted something closer to the roots. So I think that’s why there are so many books being written today about the Jewish roots of Scripture, and the historical faith. People want a faith that’s more grounded.

Just as many people go over the edge claiming to be led of the Spirit, many more people go over the edge with their new-found knowledge. It is the story of religion.

Maybe, but once again, something that’s “new-found” to us may be something our ancestors in the faith intuitively knew. What is worse is thinking that we as 21st century Christians have it all figured out.

Remember, people heard it straight from Jesus’ lips in the most original form you can get, and yet most had no idea what He was talking about most of the time.

But that does not justify laziness on our part when we have tools at our disposal to help us better understand the context of what is being said.

Both sides of this discussion have a point.

I’m just jumping in to say that I have thoroughly benefited from others much smarter than I (an innumerable multitude) who can help me understand the background of certain scriptures.

One example on this site is Chris L’s series on the churches in Revelation. Some of what he shared was brand new to me, and it helped me better apply the Word to my own heart and life. It wasn’t learning for learning’s sake alone. It was edifying and challenging, and I appreciated it.

I guess to me it’s almost a type of arrogance that we can get if we take the tact of, “I don’t need to learn from someone else, I just let the Holy Spirit teach me”.

You’re right – that is absolute arrogance, and again, not what I am proposing in the least.

And what is hurting most Christians isn’t too much knowledge, but a lack of it.

Sad, but very true.

But Phil, you seem to be mischaracterizing the debate – at least as far as I see it. AGAIN, not advocating ignorance at all. But it is getting a little tired when we over-emphasize our own self-importance by thinking that what could only be gleaned by the Lord touching one’s mind can now be gleaned by scholarship.

Remember, people heard it straight from Jesus’ lips in the most original form you can get, and yet most had no idea what He was talking about most of the time.

AGAIN, I am not saying the 2 are necessarily opposed, but I will submit (like the Spelling Bee example #48) that we have a tendency to over-complicate things as our head-knowledge increases. All of a sudden, vast, new understandings emerge (like all the junkie new books written) that claim some new, special angle.

With a neat little Bible program, you have untold numbers of commentaries at your fingertips, hundreds of translations, historical texts ad nauseum… but is all of this knowledge really drawing us closer to the Lord?

I think there is an unhealthy lust for ‘new’ in religion, especially Christianity, today. This explains our rapid embracing and discarding of any new fad that pops up and then down again.

Just as many people go over the edge claiming to be led of the Spirit, many more people go over the edge with their new-found knowledge. It is the story of religion.

I’d say the other extreme is the staunch Reformed version of Christianity which almost goes to point of saying that a personal experience with God means nothing. Of course, this isn’t Biblical either, since the Scriptures are full of people interacting with God personally. Certainly, though, the Scriptures we have today are available to us because of God working through people with good heads on their shoulders.

So I guess in some ways, it’s one of unending debates because the answer requires moderation and balance.