Short:

When it comes down to it, no matter how pious or like-minded [a person] might be, a Christian jerk is still a jerk.–Kevin Roose, The Unlikely Disciple, 277

Yep.

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47 Comments(+Add)

1   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
August 27th, 2009 at 9:08 am

Good quote.

we should all take that under advisement.

2   Joe    
August 27th, 2009 at 11:21 am

Haha. I just overheard a conversation about a certain ODM who was liveblogging an event. This is the quote word for word:

Student: For example the guy at (name removed) blog was liveblogging at a (conference name removed)
Prof: Liveblogging? What is that?
Student: It’s where you blog as [words trail off]
***Joe moves closer to hear more***
Prof: Well, that sounds rude
Student: Well, yeah a little I guess. Well, yeah, the guy is a bit of a jerk. Actually he’s a lot of a jerk. Even though I agree with him, he’s a pretty big jerk. Which stinks because I can’t send anyone his way when we disagree

***Joe walks away***

3   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 27th, 2009 at 11:42 am

Acting like a jerk is not confined to one Christian camp or theological genre.

4   nc    
August 27th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

#1:

you first.

;)

5   Nathanael    http://www.borrowedbreath.com/
August 27th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

Me first.

6   Jerry    http://www.dangoldfinch.wordpress.com
August 27th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

anyone ever have jerk chicken? I am curious.

7   Nathanael    http://www.borrowedbreath.com/
August 27th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

I had jerk catfish once.
It was schpicy.

8   Paul C    http://www.themidnightcry.com
August 27th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

anyone ever have jerk chicken?

Very frequently – excellent.
It’s a west indian dish and has to be had from an authentic west indian establishment (not the freezer section of Safeway).

9   Neil    
August 27th, 2009 at 4:44 pm

Agreed.

10   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
August 27th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

Agreed.

With the quote or about jerk chicken?

11   Jerry    http://www.dangoldfinch.wordpress.com
August 27th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

Can anything be jerked? I mean, is it limited to chicken?

Could I, say, jerk bear meat?

What about pork?

What about venison? (Not that I eat venison or bear, just that I’m curious.)

12   merry    
August 27th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

Just wondering why we’ve been focusing so much lately on the short-comings of mankind? Christians aren’t perfect, we know this. It’s a bit less depressing to focus on God.

Just saying…. :)

13   Jerry    http://www.dangoldfinch.wordpress.com
August 27th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

I don’t know what you are talking about merry…we are talking about chicken!

:-)

14   merry    
August 27th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

Har har. :)

I think you know I was referring to the original post… ;)

Carry on.

15   Joe    
August 28th, 2009 at 12:27 am

#11. Jerked pork is very good. With respect to Paul C, I am told it’s a West Indies dish which is a little different. You should try venison, its quite tasty. I’m hoping to be filling my freezer with it this winter.

16   DMac    
August 28th, 2009 at 6:15 am

I love cooking West Indian food (half afro-caribbean) so Jerk chicken, rice and peas and fried dumplings are foods that I occasionally enjoy.

Guinness punch is also really nice

17   Nathanael    http://www.borrowedbreath.com/
August 28th, 2009 at 8:32 am

I think Christians can be jerks and chickens.

;)

18   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
August 28th, 2009 at 10:56 am

You want a real thought of the day – here it is: SPECTACULAR!

Allow me to re-introduce the Christ

19   Brett S    
August 28th, 2009 at 11:11 am

Paul C,

I happen to enjoy Jerry’s thoughts of the day and find them very “real”.

I think I agree with the young lady you link to also; but rap really makes my ears hurt.

20   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
August 28th, 2009 at 11:20 am

Sorry Brett – reading my comment does sound like a slight to Jerry, but it was not intended. Sorry Jerry – no offense meant in any way.

Brett – that’s not rap. It’s poetry. I don’t like rap either.

21   Robbo    http://goldcoastbereans.blogspot.com
August 28th, 2009 at 11:28 am

what’s the difference between rap and poetry?

does poetry have to be confined to the rhyme of the ancient mariner?

what is the objection to rap, is it the genre itself or the way it is commonly exhibited?

22   Brett S    
August 28th, 2009 at 11:33 am

Brett – that’s not rap. It’s poetry

I stand corrected, Paul. I never really liked listening to feminine sounding guys with fake British accents reading poetry either. I guess it’s just a matter of taste. I do enjoy reading some poetry (I guess a large part of the bible is actually poetry).

23   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
August 28th, 2009 at 11:41 am

what’s the difference between rap and poetry?

Sense a rabbit trail coming…

Firstly, there might be the challenge that black person + mic = rap. Obviously that’s not the case.

As a young black man I was heavily, heavily in hip-hop (the lifestyle) typified by rap for a long-time. The hip-hop lifestyle, for those of you who know it, is simply incompatible with Christ. I can say this because I was in it. The vast majority of rap is destructive. And of late, it is little more than pop music.

24   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
August 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am

Anyways, I simply thought her thoughts were extremely well put together and hitting on some key themes that deserve thought. Didn’t mean to open this up to a discussion on hip-hop/rap and Christ.

25   Brett S    
August 28th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

As a young black man I was heavily, heavily in hip-hop (the lifestyle) – Paul C

Paul,

As a young white man I was way too heavily in a heavy-metal “lifestyle”. So maybe we just had different shades of the same problem :)

I still have an appreciation of heavy-metal music as an artform, and while I can only take it in limited doses I’ve always appreciated the talent of some rap artists.

Satan’s glorious tools of sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll have no regard for skin color, age, time, or place. They offer a false hope that can only be fulfilled by Christ.

26   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
August 28th, 2009 at 12:19 pm

heavy-metal music as an artform

That’s a paradox isn’t it. :) Anything that my 2 year-old can replicate with a set of pots-and-pans or that resembles a 400 lb person falling down the stairs can only be deemed music by the most generous of intepretations.

But I agree with you – “different shades of the same problem”.

They offer a false hope that can only be fulfilled by Christ.

Amen. Sadly, all hip-hop has really done is further enslave as I see it.

27   Robbo    http://goldcoastbereans.blogspot.com
August 28th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

I take it that the objection is to the hip-hop or rock-n-roll associated lifestyle; can’t argue with that.

My own experience with “rap” includes a teenager in a church I was a member of, who writes and performs “rhymes” talking about his faith in Christ and using verses straight from the Bible.

28   nc    
August 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

i don’t buy the “lifestyle” argument…

by that standard there’s a ton of classical music and jazz that we shouldn’t listen to then…

29   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

There are no Biblical styles of music. None. The only way to “judge” the spirituality of a song is whether the message is clear or not.

We cannot even judge the musicians or their hearts. Most music played in the most conservative churches would be considered heretical by the reformers, especially if the men and women sat together with the ankles of the women were exposed. :cool:

30   merry    
August 28th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

I’ve always had this irrational fear that the world will run out of melodies. I’m always so excited and relieved when a composer comes up with another one.

I think this is why I hate rap music. :(

31   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
August 28th, 2009 at 4:53 pm

This would be lost on some here (based on the demographics, though I think Brett understood) but there are miles of difference between a lifestyle and just the music. No offense, but if you are white, living in the suburbs and like to listen to a little rap music to spice up your life, that’s completely different than someone growing up embedded in the hip-hop lifestyle and all it comes with. I would go so far as to say that hip-hop (along with fatherlessness) has contributed to being the number 1 destructive influence among black youth.

As a famous lyrical line says: “Rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live”

That lifestyle – conveyed through the music – is completely at odds with Christ. Believe me on this one. :)

32   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 28th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

I am not sure what you mean by “lifestyle”.

“That lifestyle – conveyed through the music – is completely at odds with Christ. Believe me on this one.”

Perhaps, but in my opinion the overwhelming white, suburban “lifestyle” is equally at odds with Christ. You can trust me on this one as well.

33   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
August 28th, 2009 at 5:03 pm

Haha – good one Rick. What I am saying (again, you’d have to see the destruction firsthand) is at least there are some vestiges of morality maintained. Not so in hip-hop generally where any remnants of morality are completely, utterly turned on their head. Where black is white and white is black, good is bad, bad is good. I don’t get the sense of this utter reversal in other cultures, though lost is lost. You’d really have to experience it (not from BET) to know what I’m saying.

I’m not preaching for morality here, but just observing from a societal standpoint.

It is sad because of what I have witnessed firsthand. And am sadly still seeing.

34   Robbo    http://goldcoastbereans.blogspot.com
August 28th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

Paul C,

BET is not equivalent to rap. MTV is not equivalent to rap. There is a popular lifestyle portrayed as being associated with rap music but that is all it is, an association. That may be your experience but that broad generalization does not fit my experience.

By the way, everything (under the sun) that goes on in the city also goes on in the surburbs and vice versa. You can trust me on that.

35   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 28th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

The poor black culture – fatherless, lack of education, drugs, alcohol, crime, and unemployment.

The middle class/upper class white culture – civil divorces, hedonism, alcohol, computer pornography, greed, debt, and a surface Christian experience with a cultural church involvement. (cruises, golf tournaments, fishing trips, church gymnasiums, sports outings, softball, etc.)

I see two side of the same coin. I was a part of the second.

36   Paul C    http://www.themidnightcry.com
August 28th, 2009 at 5:49 pm

#34: Robbo – not sure where you got I was equating BET with rap… I’m telling the guys that what they see on BET should not inform them (in my opinion, it’s the worst channel on TV).

fatherless

Rick, you know I have a lot of respect for you. But the fact that this is lumped in with the others speaks volumes about your view of its impact. It is MASSIVE and virtually unrecoverable (in human terms) and I would venture – alone – tips the scales of the “middle class/upper class white culture” items you mention.

When I was out there, I was the godfather of 3 different kids, by three different moms for one of my friends (who has since had 4 or 5 additional). If this was an isolated incident, we could brush it off, but it’s not. Fatherlessness impacts the current generation and those to come in ways you cannot imagine.

And I contend this is fed by the culture of hip-hop (hence my reference above of all vestiges of morality being turned upside-down like nowhere else).

Yes, there is an analogy to “blue collar” vs “white collar” problems, but it cannot fit as neatly and tidily as some would want it to.

Oh… and BTW, all the points suffered by the “middle class/upper class white culture” are also suffered in the black culture, plus tons more.

But we don’t need to get into a comparison of whose sins are greater or who is more lost (pointless). We were simply discussing music styles and I wanted to inform some of us that there is a difference between hip-hop and rap (which is what most white people, I assume nc, are acquainted with and enjoy).

37   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 28th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

On one level you are correct. But there are many in house fathers in white suburbia who are for all practical purposes vacant, and many more who lead their children into a lifestyle of greed, narcissism, latent racism, and a Christless church experience.

I do agree with your assessment of being raised without a father, but I have seen and heard so many white fathers who point to that in the black culture who themselves are massively wanting as a father, even though they live in the same house.

38   Paul C    http://www.themidnightcry.com
August 28th, 2009 at 6:10 pm

Agreed to a degree Rick. Indeed, the family is being eroded and assaulted on all sides, no more violently than from within (on both the black and white side).

I would venture to say though, that a completely absent father is dramatically more impactful than a lazy, indifferent one.

Again, I can say that due to experience. In our church, though small, we have a number of fatherless children. As they grow up, you see the devastating impact in so many facets that I believe that its incalculable. That is why I can say that fatherlessness alone outweighs all the other items mentioned.

But Christ is mighty to save and able to deliver from the worst of the worst. And I know, in that, we are partners and agree.

39   Paul C    http://www.themidnightcry.com
August 28th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

I should add that though my nextdoor neighbours are from Cameroon and there are a few west indians around me, my area is mostly white. However, I have still retained my ghetto pass and venture frequently into my old area. :)

40   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 28th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

Agreed. :)

41   Robbo    http://goldcoastbereans.blogspot.com
August 28th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

#36 Paul C,

I am not sure myself. After re-reading your comment I realized I missed the “not” in front of BET. Sorry for attributing something to you that you did not say.

42   Jerry    http://www.dangoldfinch.wordpress.com
August 28th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

All of this because of a quote about jerks and a comment about jerk chicken. :-)

43   chris    
August 28th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

I should add that though my nextdoor neighbours are from Cameroon and there are a few west indians around me, my area is mostly white. However, I have still retained my ghetto pass and venture frequently into my old area.

Do I get to keep my ghetto pass? Although I’m white I did grow up ON the infamous 8 mile and I went to high school with the white rapper who made that street famous.

I would venture to say though, that a completely absent father is dramatically more impactful than a lazy, indifferent one.

Coming from both perspectives, a non present father and a lazy indifferent step father, they both harmed me. But in vastly different ways. I would tell you that the “lazy” one did me more harm than the
non present one. But that was my experience.

To the rap/hip-hop lifestyle comment; well other than my skin color I experienced it in full force growing up in Detroit. I would say that I see a strong corollary between that which you listen to and the life you lead. Particularly with rap music. It’s certainly not scientific but the students who I work with who are “caught up” are heavily influenced by the music they listen to. As was I. However I believe that the Holy Spirit has a greater power over my life than the music I listen to. I make my choices accordingly.

44   Paul C    http://www.themidnightcry.com
August 28th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

#41: no problem Robbo.

I would say that I see a strong corollary between that which you listen to and the life you lead. Particularly with rap music.

chris – I just checked and your ghetto pass is good until 2011 as a result of such an accurate comment. Honestly, I appreciate your keen insight and I believe that 100%. In terms of your living in Detroit, I can see that you would have a pretty good understanding of what I’m saying.

Actually, I was in Detroit – in one of the worst areas – last month and I was staggered by what I saw. I actually called my wife as I was driving through (after locking my doors and winding the window – standard protocol) and said, “Right now I’m in a place that is worse than what we saw in Africa.” I’ve been to some pretty rough places in some rough countries, but Detroit really shocked me and saddened me. Especially when 20 minutes away is the epitome of the lap of luxury.

Coming from both perspectives, a non present father and a lazy indifferent step father

I also agree that each case will be on its own merit and each one of us is different and react differently to unique circumstances. But I see what you’re saying here as well. An indifferent father can be extremely damaging, in some cases, worse. I have heard some kids lament, “I wish my dad at least hit me. Then I’d know he knew I was there.”

Great points chris.

45   Jerry    http://www.dangoldfinch.wordpress.com
August 29th, 2009 at 12:19 am

Although I’m white I did grow up ON the infamous 8 mile and I went to high school with the white rapper who made that street famous.

You know Vanilla Ice? OMG! That is so cool!!!!

46   chris    
August 29th, 2009 at 2:27 am

You know Vanilla Ice? OMG! That is so cool!!!!

Well him too. We met at the grammy’s. Him and Suge Knight and I were hanging (Pun intended) out with Naughty by Nature talking about the good ‘ol days of rap. You know back when Pac and Biggie were still friends…well…and alive. N.W.A. was straight outta Compton and Rappers Delight was still fresh on everyones mind.

47   Joe    
August 29th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

Hey, Pac is still alive. Man made more money after he “died” then before. Just saying…