I couldn’t help but post this nearly picture-perfect abuse of Scripture, as illustrated by a tinfoil-hat-wearing Christian with slightly too much knowledge of video production for his (and our) own good:
.
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Now – I don’t hide my political affiliation, nor my utter (and nearly complete) disdain for the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Even so, I think that stretching the historical (and linguistic) truth to shoehorn the newspaper into one’s voodoo-theologics is just plain silly…
PS: Apologies for my AWOL-ness recently – I hope to be through this particular stretch of woods in the near future…
[HT: A 'Christian' friend of mine...]
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93 Comments(+Add)
“I will report the facts, you can decide.”
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!
HA!
Hahahahahahahahaha!!
Who does this guy think he is Faux News?
Hatred will seek justification and find it.
The music is very dramatic.
I don’t see anything wrong with the man’s logic. I mean the whole thing is pretty fair and balanced and having no knowledge of Hebrew or Aramaic, who am I to dispute this explanation.
Everyone finds his justification and for something or someone they hate,despise or utterly disdain and are convinced about it. Before the election in November, there was a post on this very blog about whether Obama was the antichrist and you can go back and read it. I would say the guy is only trying to contribute to the discussion.
And that six-6-VI graphic with the Obama logo, this is the first time I am seeing it. I always learn or see something new most times I come here and that is why I keep visiting so frequently.
Robbo, I’m not sure how to take your comment.
Me either
Robbo,
In all seriousness, the guy has no idea what he’s talking about. It’s basically an example of someone taking a small bit of truth and twisting into something completely different. For one thing, the passage he cites has nothing to do with the anti-Christ. Even if his translation to Hebrew is correct, which I suspect it is not, it doesn’t prove anything about anything other than that some languages share certain sounds.
Racist!
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Plus, I think Michael Moore is the anti-Christ.
Robbo,
I do not remember anyone who posts here seriously advocating that Obama as the Antichrist.
Regardless, (and I can hardly believe I even need debunk this) the linguistic logic in the video fails.
If you read Luke 10:18 in Hebrew you will indeed find “baraq” as the Hebrew for “lightening.” But you will not find “bamah” as the Hebrew for “heaven” or “sky.” A different Hebrew word, “shamayim,” is used.
Further, the use of “O” as the English equivalent of a waw connective is highly questionable – enough that it probably would not be used unless you already had “Barak” and “Bama” and needed to complete your dot connections.
So, for these reasons, translating Jesus’ words as “I saw Satan as baraq o bama…” is not legitimate.
#8 Phil,
In all seriousness, the guy is completely whacko and I have no doubt about that. He gets some air of legitimacy because these are the kind of questions being asked in serious Christian circles and it is troubling. In the secular setting, you see similar stuff on Fox News (and other 24hr outlets). They report a rumor and spend time debating it and then at the end say something like “we just reporting what is out there”, after spreading poison to the gullible.
#6 Christian P,
Part of my point is that this involves an argument of degrees. This Aramaic scholar who may not even recognize Hebrew if it was brought to him in a calabash is also contributing his bit to the discussion on who Obama is and why Obams ought to be condemned, hated or utterly distained.
And I think the additional VI-six-6 graphic was unnecessary but that is a minor point
I think it was included as a joke…
beware the humor impaired
Robbo,
I can guarantee you that this is no Aramaic scholar. This whole thing was posted as a joke because it is so ridiculous.
This is not an argument of degrees because he starts out with a faulty claim and then adds on top of it more faulty claims. In fact, it is so ludicrous that if I hadn’t seen Christians do similar things in the past, I would say that this video is definitely satire (but I can’t say that).
Also, the whole “O” thing is so asinine that you have to try to get something that wrong. There are no vowels in the written Hebrew language. Waw is transliterated with a “w”.
I know it was included as a joke, primarily because it’s one that (for me at least) strikes a bit at the folks at BOTH ends of the US political spectrum…
I suspect that the video is serious. If you Google Obama + Luke 10:18 there are all sorts of people promoting this in various ways.
Truly embarrassing…
There is still some room in my fall course. When a gun has only blanks, it is useless even if it still has aim, sound, and smoke.
#15 Christian P,
I know he is no “Aramaic scholar”. He is completely offbase. I should have used the “quotes” thing the first time but MG says that is bad writing and I don’t to make my writing any worse than what it is.
The argument of degrees does not refer to this man’s wacko logic but rather to my own original intended point which is that, the guy is at one end of a political/religious spectrum that has utter disdain or complete hatred for Obama. He finds his reason in dubious Hebrew scholarship. Others has their own various reasons- degrees or reasoning. As you rightly point out, you have seen Christians doing similar stuff.
#17 Neil,
it is not just embarrassing, it is depressing, sad and, sometimes, downright scary.
An emergent leaning believer is much less likely to fall for such nonsense. Think about the implications of that.
Here we have an orthodox believer who is hateful and brittle; he loves America; he has no patience for gays; he seems to invite God’s judgment; he has a large 401k; and he believes that faith in Jesus alone is eternal life.
Here we have an emergent leaning believer who is loving; he is not patriotic; he reaches out to gay people; he prays for God’s judgment to be stayed; he has very little savings; and he believes that faith in Jesus alone is eternal life.
(OK, now I am scaring myself.)
What depresses me, beyond the public embarrassment to the cause of Christ, is the amount of thought and study wasted on this…
“An emergent leaning believer is much less likely to fall for such nonsense. Think about the implications of that.”
No, a scripturally based believer will never fall for such nonsense. The emergent types reject anything that comes from the “other side” including any real biblical Truth. They are anti-modern evangelical they are not interested in the truth.
My mailbox has been flooded with this stupid video’s link for the past three weeks.
Dump it. Why does it need to be addressed?
Only the unregenerate would fall for this.
BTW where does the scripture say that there will be a man given the title
anti-christ? Some folks need to re-read
1 John 2:18-20 and 1John 4:1-6.
The orthodox church has for decades scurried to identify the anti-christ. Many have had to cross off Ted Kenedy off their list.
Such arrogance.
Exalting Jesus Through His Church.
“Red or yellow, black or white all are equal in his sight”
No not Jesus, Barack Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqMTD5UFmU&feature=player_embedded#t=142
Have school children ever been taught songs of praise for a living president before?
This is creepy and troubling on many levels. First it’s encourage the artists to promote Mr. Obama, now our childen in paneons of praise.
Get the incense ready. Caesar is waiting.
He’s not the anti-Christ though.
Actually, children have been taught songs of “praise” to other presidents…
“I like Ike”
i think the lyrics went “I like Ike, I’ll shout it over a mike. or a phone or from the highest steeple!”…
and on and on…
i just don’t see the sinister issue of people writing musical songs in support of political figures since it’s a practice by everyone across the spectrum throughout political history here in the USofA.
I mean, i was more offended by Reagan’s co-opting of “Born in the USA” when that song was actually written as a kind of finger to everything Reagan represented.
Or when Republicans use the Jack and Diane song simply because they think they’ve gotten the corner on “real america” and the song references small towns and “the heartland”…
these things are how it’s always been.
and there are actual substantive issues that get obscured by focusing on “songs”…
All I know is that the people who are saying “it’s just a song” or whatnot would have been absolutely livid if their kids had to learn a song about W a few years back. Nothing causes myopia like dedication to a political cause…
you’re probably right, phil.
either way, it’s a fake issue.
Caesar isn’t waiting.
Caesar is here and has been here.
everytime you pay taxes…you’re burning your incense.
on some level we’ve all accepted the mark…
and, no, i’m not just talking about taxpayer supported abortion.
nc,
adults co-opting songs is one thing… teaching children songs of praise like this is creepy.
This stuff is par for the course… whether you hate it or not just depends on if your person is in power…
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/04/17/out-of-the-mouths-of-babes/
NC, that is simply not true. Caesar was deified as a living god and all Roman citizens had to burn a pinch of incense acknowledging such as part of their citizenship requirements. Paying taxes to Rome was not acknowledging Caesar’s deity. We are commanded to pay taxes and respect the office. Your logic is off here brother.
NC, a political jingle during an election is a far cry to a song of praise for a living president in office. Congress passed a law forbidding the use of a living president’s image on our coinage for good reason.
Personality cults for living politicians are not a good thing. Just ask Cuba, Venezuela, China, et nausium.
Praise songs taught to children for in-office rulers have, up to now, been reserved for royalty and dictators.
Do the math. This is creepy and does not bode well.
I like this one better
you say potat TOE, i say poTAH toe.
jingle, song of praise…
whatever…
formal deification and functional deification…what’s the difference?
with all the hemming and hawing some of my bretheren do over the gov’t…it’s clear there’s an idol in place…even if a “negative” one.
you’re getting closer to the real point, if there is any substance to this “issue”…
we shouldn’t be singing the praises of ANY human, as if they bring us hope.
it’s just dishonest to speak of idolizing Obama as a problem and not be honest and repentant for the way a community put their eggs on Bush.
or the way a community showed massive hatred for Clinton…
or for the way they idolize REagan.
there’s plenty of idolatry to go around…
just cuz someone is on the “correct side” politically doesn’t make it ok.
that’s my point.
and this song thing is still a fake issue.
who cares what other people do?
That’s not Obama.
There’s plenty to criticize him for…as is demonstrated on this site…sometimes in unchristlike ways.
his supporters writing a song ain’t one of ‘em.
Well, the FEMA song is stupid too. I don’t think I would want my kids (I don’t have any as of yet) being taught a song praising any leader. Yes, I would hope they would have some amount of respect for whomever is president, but I wouldn’t want them singing songs for him.
I guess the thing that I find disheartening is that during the Bush years, there were plenty of Christians who seemed to have no problem criticizing him and questioning everything. But now, it seems these people rush to defend Obama every chance they get. Why go from being the pawns of one political party just to become those of another?
Do I think Obama is an improvement over Bush? Yes, I do. He hasn’t invaded any countries on false pretenses, nor has he grossly mismanaged any natural disasters.
That said, I don’t think defending Obama at every step is useful or necessary. He has been far too deferential to Congress, which resulted in a grossly imperfect spending bill (though desperately needed), and appears to be wrecking his chances at meaningful healthcare reform.
Obama also has an ego the size of the Chrysler building.
I will say, though, the opposition to Obama is amazing. I am stunned at its stupidity and shallowness. That’s what happens when you let the segment of the party that thinks of Sarah Palin as the great white hope run the show.
I think that’s an unfair statement. I think there’s plenty of good reason to be opposed to Obama’s policies without being a neo-Con. First of all, he’s spending like a drunken sailor, and the deficits that he will leave will make anything Bush did seem like petty change. It’s like both parties are in a race to see who can go into debt faster.
I guess my thoughts are that as long as Christians are depending the government to do something in the way of Kingdom work, we will constantly be disappointed. Perhaps that’s too cynical, but it just seems that history continually plays out that way. Government intervention cannot and will not ever change people. I guess overall, I’m just saying I wish I saw more skepticism on the part of Christians. It seems so many of us are too quick to put our trust in elected officials to save us.
Phil:
There is a difference between “the opposition” and “good reason to be opposed to Obama’s policies.”
By and large, I think that the Republican party has been given over to the Glen Beck/Sarah Palin/Rush Limbaugh faction of the party. I think the Edmund Burke/William F. Buckley/Irving Kristol wing of the party is either leaving, dying, or disinterested.
It’s disheartening. We need a two-party system… an unfortunately, it’s breaking down. If Republicans are going to run as a Southern populist party, the country will suffer.
That said, oppose Obama all you like. I have very little “faith” in him… what I would like to see, though, is less Glenn Beck and more “The Economist.”
Maybe that’s wishful thinking…
Well, yeah, I agree with you on that, M.G. It seems like it’s always the nutjobs on either side that scream the loudest. Just like the extremists you mentioned on the right seem to get the most press now, I think the same can be said for the extremists on the left during the Bush years. I think people like Michael Moore, George Soros, etc. were given way too much airtime for their silliness. I mean the fact is both Bush and Obama were/are too centrist for the more extreme wings of their party.
I think in reality, there’s little difference between how the two parties actually govern when they’re in power.
I try to remain moderate. I really do. But it seems of late every time I try to pull back to the center on Obama and give him the benefit of the doubt more crazy stuff like this happens and the scale is starting to tip. Skin color has nothing to do with it for me. It’s the personality cult that is becoming scary. I am truthfully concerned.
It’s like the Acorn thing. My white guilt does go a long way in moderating my opinion on firmative action, for example. But Martin Luther King took the high road. He had basic morality, i.e., soldid Biblical “rightness” on his side which is hard to overcome and argue against in the long run and so eventually wins out in the lives of anyone honestly seeking the truth.
But when I see things like the Acorn scandal and I see black advancement organizations use their rightfully won places of position and power abuse that power, and in fact use it to advance their communities unlawfully, for me it takes away their moral imperative. Of course there are corrupt white-run organizations, but for a group to claim they deserve such and such based on moral grounds and then to do things like this just totally sets me back.
Poplitical Corruption is nothing new and us white boys have been doing it forever. I guess I naively thought we had made some progress over the past 100 years.
john hughes,
you rightly observe the phenomenon of how abused become abusers, oppressed when given the opportunity can become oppressors…
it’s ugly…
we are broken.
It is not the Glenn Beck or Limbaugh crowd that scares me. They have a job to do and it is very easy to see the flaws in their talking points, sometimes it is even amusing to watch or listen to them at work. What scares me is the when ordinary and otherwise reasonable people get into the Beck mode. I rarely go to Verum Serum these days but last time I went I noticed that the tagline “Christian blog” had been removed; at least now any visitor will know its got nothing to do with Christ.
There is hatred, call it “utter disdain” if you like, going on here and saying that some Christians did the same to GW does not in anyway excuse it.
I don’t see or sense the personality cult but that may just because of the circles I move in and also be from my own bias and blindness. But when moderates pick up the recent ACORN thing, universally condemned, and start using as an excuse to move back towards fear mode, I know it is time to be really worried.
Robbo,
Be scaredtrust in the Lord. We are there.I oppose Obama because his policies are socialist and he promotes the elimination of personal liberties.
It’s as simple as that.
#45 John H,
where are we, pray tell me. You don’t have to be so scared and creeped up, you know. Seeing that we both trust in the Lord, we will be okay. Cheers, brother.
John,
I actually prefer this one:
Robbo,
I oppose the Big 0 because I pretty much disagree with 95% of his policies (figuring that even a stopped watch is right twice a day) – whether at home or abroad (where apparently abandoning our friends, stabbing our allies in the back and taking high-fives from our enemies is now en vogue). The toilet that is the Obama presidency can’t be flushed soon enough. Should we fear Caesar? No – but we shouldn’t go ahead and worship him, either (regardless of his political party).
Just to be clear, universal mandates, public options, expanded healthcare are not the same thing as socialism, right?
Socialism is the government ownership of the means of production.
Thus, socialized medicine would be the government takeover of the healthcare industry. It’s where the doctors are employed by the government. It’s what Britain has.
And it’s not what Obama is promoting.
Other countries have universal healthcare, but without socialized medicine. Countries like France and Switzerland. And what Obama has been promoting would make the U.S. much more similar to those nations.
If Obama’s policies are socialist, then that makes 99.999999% of the western world socialist.
Or, better yet, Obama’s policies are *not* socialist.
#48..
creeeepy
MG
What color is the sky in your world?
I believe his policies are very socialist, he does want the government to fund and run health care.
I believe the only change is in Jesus, anyway. The party in control is there because He put them there. We need to repent as a nation and follow Jesus. It is obvious that this is a time of discipline for being luke warm. The time of persecution for our faith is soon coming, just look at the legislation proposed.
Of course, it will not matter to most main-line christians and post modern emergents, even many evangelicals, because they dont talk about Jesus being the one and only way anyway. It will impact the true, Bible believing, Born again, God honoring Christian, who stands by the Word of God.
sure Chris L, no surprise here. You are a good brother, all the same. Politics is overated.
re: 51
PB,
If the definition of socialism is the government funding of healthcare, then it would seem any person who ever advocates or relies on Medicare is a socialist.
I can assume then, that you will say no to Medicare when you turn 65? Please confirm.
p.s. The sky is a nice blue, with partly cloudy conditions.
p.p.s. Do you ever read “The Economist,” the weekly newspaper published out of London? I find myself agreeing with them quite a bit on policy matters, and they seem to have a pretty good grip on what color the sky is. I don’t know. Maybe I’m a wingnut after all.
If people truly believe this, they certainly don’t act like it. It’s been talked about ad nauseum here, but seriously if you really be things are fated in such a way why not just sick back and let them play out. Don’t you think God gets tired of hearing you complain about the things He’s ordained?
Well, Medicare is definitely a socialist program. It’s one of the many already in play. I would say that you are correct that when people throw that term around, it’s not always true to the original meaning. It’s really a form of collectivism which is related to socialism. But apart from the whole healthcare side of things, there have been moves by the Obama administration that really are the government taking over large portions of industry – namely banking (GWB is partly to blame for this as well) and the auto industry.
As far as saying no to Medicare, I believe that’s pretty much illegal. I believe you are required to enroll at a certain age even if you have private insurance.
#53
When and if I get to 65, there are no other health insurance options for me. My only choice is the Part B.
Medicare is a good illustration. It is broke, Doctors hate dealing with the paperwork, and many Doctors won’t take medicare patients. There are already old folks not getting good care because of Medicare.
How is Obama’s nationalized, Socialized health care be any different?
Actually, the sky is clear on planet earth. The blue tint is light refraction.
Strictly speaking, Medicare is not socialist. It is a social insurance program, more similar to unemployment benefits or public education. It is not the government ownership of the means of production.
And there is a way to opt-out of paying Medicare taxes, if you’re stubborn enough.
Re: 56
The problems of funding Medicare are a function of our rapidly aging population and the political difficulty of cutting costs, not due to some government malfeasance.
As far as comparing it to Obama’s “nationalized” healthcare, there is nothing to compare it to.
You do know, right, that there is no single-payer system being contemplated in Congress?
The sky, strictly speaking, is the upper atmosphere as viewed from the earth’s surface. As a result, while the atmosphere may lack color, the sky is definitely, well, blue.
discipline for being lukewarm?
weren’t ya’ll all lining up for the credit in re-electing W?
but now you’re being punished?
huh…strange…so strange…
(shuffles off, mumbling about inconsistency, intellectual dishonesty, and unchristlike partisanship.)
i will say though that i do think the election was a rebuke.
one meant to teach lessons…
but it’s clear that many of you are not learning the lessons actually needed.
the rebuke isn’t an invitation to retreat into more partisanship.
the rebuke is the simple fact that you’ve co-opted your faith in service of your political perspective.
we’ve had this discussion before…
i praise God for the Obama presidency because it’s a smack at the arrogance of the church that thought re-electing a particular man in 2004 was somehow a sufficient expression of their Christian identity, it’s a smack for the unchristlike attitude we harbor against anyone with whom we disagree, it also shows what liars and hypocrites many of us are when we get all huffy about respecting “authority” when someone rightly criticized Bush, and our sell-out to him and his team, but can’t seem to muster the same need to refrain from unchristlike disrespect and paranoia when it’s Obama or anyone with a (D) behind their name.
Partisan, single-issue Christians fundamentally undermine the biblical mandate in hebrews to work for the peace and prosperity of the place you find yourselves.
you can’t have peace and prosperity by tearing people apart, calling names, etc. etc. etc. in the name of Jesus.
regardless of what party you belong to…
feh…
I suppose we can split hairs on the definition and application of Socialism – and maybe that’s a good idea to keep us all honest.
That said; the Feds taking over and creating gov’t monopolies on most anything – healthcare, retirement funding, automobile production, etc… – is a very bad idea no matter what ya call it.
Re:60
I agree completely.
The only problem is that the alternative was worse. AIG, GM, etc. were too big to fail.
One of the redeeming qualities of the Bush administration will be the way it handled the financial crisis. Overall, I think Paulson did pretty well. We were at the edge, peering over, and the Bush administration got us in reverse.
finance is an economic utility…it’s not just some industry that we can do without.
granted, we could argue about how the economy is structured, but the point is moot.
Chris L. #48.
Again, I don’t have a problem with campaign jingles and songs it’s just songs of praise to a standing president that resonates with cultish adulation like the Hitler Youth. Again other than royalty and dictators when have we ever seen this before? It’s troubling. I would have felt the same with GW, Regan or anyone else. Probably more so with GW
P.S. God save the queen.
P.S. that kid in the video obviously dyes his hair. Not a true Aryan.
Many people, including many believers, actually hate Barak Obama. They may hide behind “I disagree with his policies”, but when the curtain is liftted, it is hate nonetheless. It is the one issue with which many are in lockstep with the ODMs.
I saw a picture of the American guy who was arrested for bomb making and being linked to Al Queda. Years ago I would have been filled with
hatreddisgust but yesterday I was filled with compassion and prayed for his redemption.Politics usually strips one of the compassion of Christ that we so often tout with our lips.
RE: 63
We saw it with G.W. Bush. I put this up earlier, but maybe it bears repeating.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/04/17/out-of-the-mouths-of-babes/
Can you imagine if those kids had been at the White House and had sung to Obama?
People would be calling for Obama’s impeachment. Seriously.
#66
M.G. I’ve had many problems with the various Bush plans, agenda’s etc etc. so I’m NOT a lock stepper, but, I really didn’t see the same connection in the link you posted…..sorry, I just don’t see it. There’s quite a difference in the tone of the lyrics. But at the same time, I think it’s all a waste of energies, on BOTH sides!
One other thing I really getting weary of, and I’m not pointing fingers at you, but, it’s something I see in general. It’s the pointing backwards and saying “well Bush did it TOO” as if that somehow justifies something that is happening in the present.
Well maybe Bush did it too, but that doesn’t mean I liked it THEN either! The opposition is doing themselves a disservice with this mentality.
“But at the same time, I think it’s all a waste of energies, on BOTH sides!”
Scotty circa A.D. 2009
M.G.,
This is a classic case of apples and oranges.
In the case you sighted we have children from three states at a public event singing a song of thanks that addresses a particular issue and praised the President, Congress, FEMA, and “People across our land” – to the pop-tune of “Hey look me over.”
In alternative, you have children at a public school, singing general praises to a particular man, using religious and patriotic tunes but using his names instead.
Apples – Oranges.
In this case we have yet to see an example of “Bush did it too.”
Can you imagine what the liberal media would have done if kids at a public school were taught messianic songs about Bush!
Sorry Neil, I was speaking in general terms, not necessarily this particular thing. I should have been more specific.
#68
I’m honored I made the wall!!
Neil:
I agree that the there are serious differences between the two examples. However, just as their are more egregious elements to the Obama song, I think there are some pretty egregious elements to the Bush example.
Think about it. Following Katrina, there was pretty universal disgust about the fact that a former Arabian Horse Association leader, with no disaster management experience whatsoever, was put in charge of FEMA.
He was placed in this position just in time to watch over a pretty serious mishandling of a major natural disaster (which was mishandled for multiple reasons, of course, with FEMA being just one player).
Some time later, we have a group of kids singing praises to, of all things, FEMA!
Please, imagine if a group of kids came to the White House and sang about the value of the fiscal stimulus, which both Congress and Obama passed, with a special shout-out to the Treasury department.
Do you really believe that conservatives would not flip out?
you guys love love love love LOOOOOVE this fake ass issue.
until someone can demonstrate that that stupid song was pushed and written by the political director of the Obama whitehouse…
WHO F’iNG CARES?!??!?!
love to all…
NC. It’s a part of a disturbing pattern , not an isolated incident.
Julius Caesar didn’t want the job either. The people “insisted”.
Have you been paying attention for the past 233 years? It is the narrative of one continuous disturbing pattern. That is why believers still are drawn into fallen politics, they are blind to the overall picture.
When will we realize that what goes on in government is antichrist to the core. Our calling is redemption, not legislative renovation. You guys talk about children singing goofy songs, but do you not realize how many millions of children, including in Christian homes, hear parents use demeaning language about certain politicians and are in the room when Hannity, Beck, and others are on the television?
Until the church moves completely away from nationalism and politics we will never be about our Father’s business.
It must be the end of the world…
Notre Dame beat Purdue again!
Both political sides teach human idolatry, not unlike what many quarters of the church do. Even the Mennonites, known for their humility and downplay of human elevation, have started having their superstars with supernatural “insight” into the Scriptures.
Politics has not been drawn to the church, but the church has been draw into politics.
john hughes,
first off, to be clear, i mean no personal disrespect.
i think you’re a good guy, by all accounts from our interactions here…
sorry if my last post came off stupid…my bad.
i think rick has a great point.
demagoguery abounds on both sides…i’ll grant it…
Politics divides believers.
Politics divides families.
Politics breeds self righteousness.
Poltics breeds hatred.
Politics promtes human idols.
Politics wastes obscene amounts of money.
Politics seeks power.
We as the church should be engaged in redemption. We should not be wasting energy to protect our personal wealth. We should be and preach Jesus to a dark political culture. We should, we must, be different.
This is a clip from Jesus Camp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y2QghS2gU
I agree, the weird stuff happens on both sides.
that Jesus Camp movie…ugh…
“he has surrounded himself with spiritual people”…
yeah…spiritual….
ooshabalitakigoshabahighya!!!
I actually don’t find that particular clip from Jesus Camp nearly as bad as the Obama song. It’s pretty clear to me from the clip that kids are praying for him, even though the filmmakers certainly do try to give people unfamiliar with a Charismatic / Pentecostal service the idea that they were praying to him in some way. Yes, I do think the camp in that movie is way weird, and yes, I have personally experienced somewhat similar things (although, I have to admit, none of them were as weird as that camp). And you can also bet that the camp didn’t bring in cutout of Clinton to pray for during those years.
I almost get the feeling that the Christians who are supporting Obama are almost saying, “OK you pubbies you had your turn at idolatry, no move over it’s ours”.
Re: 85
For the record, I think the Obama clips are creepy.
What disturbs me, though, is people thinking that the Obama clips are *truly* comparable to Hitler and Stalin. Or people thinking that the Obama worship is any worse than the religious nationalism present in the “God bless the USA” crowd.
The vehemence of the anti-Obama crowd surprises me.
The Obama song I surmise was in a secular setting. The Jesus Camp is an abomination.
Where in God’s dear name are followers of Jesus supposed to be anti anyone? And men like Steve Camp openly endorse men like Rush Limbaugh.
phil,
you don’t think that people so deluded into believing the immoral policy types around Bush were “spiritual” isn’t anymore a form of “brainwashing” as all the bitching and moaning about Obama Youth and internment camps, etc…
rick is right…the reason why that gets me more pissed off is that it is done in Jesus name.
The Lord wants to be a peculiar people that are called out to worship Him and show forth His praises in a dark and hopeless world. When we participate in political activities we not only dishonor the Lord, but we present a false gospel to those who so desperately need it. And those who would never be tethered with Rick Warren (for example) will compromise their standards when it comes to being involved with the political pigpen (reference crosstalk).
It is the same meshing that Uzziah attempted and was struck with leprosy. We should have no political party and we should not have abortion or traditional marriage as our banner – it should be Jesus and Jesus alone!!!
And what does it say about the church when we are involved of all things in monetary squabbles and capitalism? It says we care about money just like the fallen world. And when we squak about the fairness doctrine and claim we are being persecuted what does that say about God’s church?? It says we hate sacrifice and we cannot stand being persecuted for His dear name’s sake.
God bring us back to You, not partailly, but with our whole hearts. And if and when we are counted worthy to suffer for Your Name let us be humble and filled with joyous praise.
nc,
Perhaps my perspective is a little bit different because I truly have been immersed in churches that represent both sides of the political coin. For many years, I was a member a large, suburban Evanglical church where the majority was white, and I’d be comfortable saying a majority of the members definitely voted Republican. That was during the Bush years. Sure, there were some people who tended to push the whole nationalism thing too much, but the majority people did not. I heard plenty of complaints about Bush there, too. I did not feel he was idolized.
Now I attend, and am a campus pastor, at a church that is 80-90% African American. I am sure nearly all of the members voted for Obama. However, most of them do not talk about it, but there are some who definitely do see him as having the capacity to be some sort of savior. It’s not much different than those in my old church who saw that in Bush.
I guess, overall, my point is this. I feel like the extremes on both sides end up creating caricatures of their enemies, and those caricatures are what people spend an inordinate time debating. So, yes, I think there is about equal amounts of idolatry coming from the left and the right. I don’t think it’s wrong for Christians to have opinions on political matters, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with disagreement. I do think there will always be people who take it too far.
i hear what you’re saying phil…i would agree that there is fault on both sides.
#91
Well said Phil, because that’s been my experience almost to a “T” except the Campus part…….the pecentages have varied a little bit over the years but, not to any extremes.
Moderation in ALL things!