They were transitional between the OT and the NT, however they were born again on Pentecost.

That’s an interesting interpretation; a) what makes you say that, and what difference does it make?

They were transitional between the OT and the NT, however they were born again on Pentecost.

What does this even mean? So if one of the disciples had died prior to Pentecost they would not have been considered born again? I’m not trying to be facetious here, I just have never heard anyone make that claim.

Also, if it weren’t possible for someone to be born again until Pentecost, why did Jesus tell Nicodemus that he must be born again a good deal prior to that event? He didn’t tell him he had to wait to be born again until Pentecost.

the sad thing is that “desiring to follow him” has to look exactly the way you and your ilk “follow him”…otherwise you claim people aren’t really “following him”.

They were transitional between the OT and the NT, however they were born again on Pentecost.

If a person is a true convert, he or she will become a disciple.

I agree. Yet much of 20th Century evangelism and missions was not disciple making but comvert counting… how many people can we get to repeat a prayer, walk an aisle…

I believe THAT is what Bell is arguing against, and in that context there is a difference between counting converts and making disciples.

In short, we are to make disciples and then disciple disciples.

I would agree that that’s the Biblical model, but I just don’t see that a lot of people operate under that paradigm. I think that in the American church we put such a huge emphasis on the moment of salvation that we end up giving people the idea that’s all there is.

I have a question. When were the disciples saved? Do we know? It seems to me that there are relatively few examples in Scripture of people having the type of conversion experiences that the Apostle Paul or even the Roman jailer had, but yet those are what we have made the model. It seems Jesus’ model was just asking people to follow him, and a person could choose to or choose not to. My question would be when, for example, Matthew decided to get up from the tax collector’s booth, was he at that instant a convert? Was he saved? If he died that night, would he go to heaven?

To me those questions really don’t seem like something the Gospel writers even attempt to answer, but those are the questions that many Evangelicals focus on. Doesn’t something seem off about that?