Ok, I go through phases where I don’t go to the sites that call themselves online discernment sites at all. I like those days. They’re usually stomach bile in the back of the throat free. The other day a friend sent me a link to this video. It was soundly lambasted on the usual suspects site here. I watched it once. Then again and finally one more time. I have to be honest I don’t understand what is wrong with it. Can you tell me? I mean he says, “Look if we’re doing something of God you can’t stop us and if we’re not, then we’re done anyhow.

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37 Comments(+Add)

1   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
October 19th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

Well, he’s wearing an ugly sweater for one…

2   Coop    
October 19th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

I’m with you, Joe; I watched the video, and read the posts at CRN & 5 Point Salt, and I really don’t understand what their issue is. I got that he fully understands that Jesus didn’t turn over tables in the temple because people were insulting him (although, in a way, they were, by turning His Father’s house into a “den of thieves”), and I also fully understood his point and the point that he related from Rick Warren: don’t respond to your critics by giving them more fuel for the fire. Live your life and conduct your ministry in a manner that is above reproach, but don’t act like you’re above reproach.

I hope that made sense. Then again, maybe I’m just an apostate tattooed love boy…

3   Brendt Waters    http://www.csaproductions.com/blog/
October 19th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

Whaddaya mean “what’s wrong with this?”, Joe?

1) It’s Perry Noble
2) He speaks positively about Rick Warren
3) He doesn’t name the names of critics

C’mon! This is so easy!!

:sarcasm off.

4   Brendt Waters    http://www.csaproductions.com/blog/
October 19th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

Oh I forgot the worst of all:

4) He admits to sin in his life — what kind of Christian does that?

5   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
October 19th, 2009 at 4:42 pm

That sweater is kind of ugly.

Maybe C?N is becoming a fashionista? Not sure what the all-important “point” was they were getting at…

6   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 19th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

Watched it when they posted it – wondered what the fuss was about. As a matter of fact, when he said they were about preaching the gospel and seeing people saved, I felt a little better about him.

7   Scotty    http://scottysplace-scotty.blogspot.com/
October 19th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

I agree with Brendt and it’s ALL about point 2

Noble also shares some “wisdom” he personally received from Purpose Driven Pope Rick Warren

That brought out the most words of the whole OP. GBA trumps everything.

I must admit after all these years of reading the ODM/ADMs I STILL don’t understand why they continue to critique all these people. All I see happening is them preaching to their own choir. I mean look at the comments where they DO have them. What else can they say that hasn’t already been said?

I would think that the blogosphere would be replete with testimonies of people being saved from the heresies they write about. But it’s not.

It all just seems like such a waste of time and energy.

8   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 19th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

“I mean he says, “Look if we’re doing something of God you can’t stop us and if we’re not, then we’re done anyhow.”

Please do not confuse me with Calvinistic inconsisencies. We Calvinists rest in God’s sovereignty, and everything we do is for God’s glory but cannot change anything.

Come to think of it, that makes my discernment to God’s glory equal to my basketball playing to God’s glory. Both are to God’s glory without any human purpose. But it makes for interesting reading. :cool:

Who would have thought that Biblical discernment would one day grapple with people’s Twitter? It sorta cheapens the whole thing.

Next stop – martyrdom!

9   Neil    
October 19th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

The opening complaint – that Noble is self-righteous made me laugh out loud… and isn’t the “editor” one who claims God’s call? So why be snarky about someone else’s “conversations with the LORD”?

Seriously!

10   nc    
October 19th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

i don’t like perry noble.

but this video?

“What’s wrong with this video?”

Not.
a.
damn.
thing.

11   Joe    
October 19th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

#10
Me either

12   M.G.    
October 19th, 2009 at 11:38 pm

I was surprised that Ken Silva once decided to deride some list that Perry Noble had compiled; a list which included items like “Jesus is the only way,” and “nice people go to hell.”

If this place were an ODM, you would have had to do an article announcing that Ken Silva didn’t think Jesus was the only way, and that he believed salvation was a matter of being good enough.

Sad to say, but the anti-Noble stuff is just hatred… and it blinds the ODMs to all the things they agree on.

Gross.

13   Brendt Waters    http://www.csaproductions.com/blog/
October 20th, 2009 at 10:35 am

5) Ed Itor gets to say “Pope Of The Carolinas” and “Purpose Driven Pope” in the same post.

I’m surprised he didn’t pass out in self-referential euphoria.

14   Bo Diaz    
October 20th, 2009 at 11:56 am

The obvious conclusion is that the ADMs aren’t really about the gospel. When they can condemn something like this that has at its core the gospel message of the death and resurrection of Christ its because they’re upset by something other than the gospel, and if something is superior to the gospel, then they don’t have a gospel centered worldview.

15   nc    
October 20th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

@Bo,

you nailed it.

i think noble is a clown, but i still don’t get the kind of visceral rage and masturbatory obsession with the guy.

all that being said, this video was good for me to see and hear.

i’m going to start praying for him regularly.

16   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 20th, 2009 at 2:07 pm

“masturbatory obsession”

Recognized as an official first.

17   nc    
October 20th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

@16…

they just keep going back for more and more and more.

but it’s obvious they’re not all too satisfied.

(cue comments about the pornographic nature of ADM/ODM ministry)

18   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
October 20th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

I agree with #5

The Sweater has got to go.

So does the purpose driven/seeker sensitive motif of these churches.

Who cares if they are huge? Their definition of the Gospel is anything non-offensive that attracts people to their mega-church and keeps them there.

I am sorry, but if Peter, Jesus, or Paul spoke at these churches, either people would leave, or they would pick up stones to throw at Him.

19   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
October 20th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

I think a far more telling thing is that Joe’s Pastor has hired Shane Hipps. Why don’t you all talk about that one?

The Gospel of the penal, substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on our behalf is going to be further muddled and removed from Mars Hill.

More Human philosophy, and less of Jesus.

20   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
October 20th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

Sorry, PB – not going to go with the thread hijack. This one’s about Perry Noble and the inexplicable complaints about the linked video…

You’ve got a blog – go talk to yourself about conspiracy theories there…

21   Bo Diaz    
October 20th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

I am sorry, but if Peter, Jesus, or Paul spoke at these churches, either people would leave, or they would pick up stones to throw at Him.

No, what would happen is some moron with a blog would condemn him over their own inferiority complexes.

22   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 20th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

Let us level the playing field. If Finney, Wesley, or Edwards preached in any of our churches, they would be labeled as legalists and heretics.

I agree in general with the negative perspectives of some of these people. What seperates me, I hope, from the rank and file ODM, is that I am not blind to the sin and lethargy we all share. The most prominent one being self righteousness, which is always on sale.

To the post: The government is the enemy of Jesus Christ. That truth has been successfully camouflaged, especially in America. Everyone knows about the Chinese government, but few recognize the insidious nature of allowing a democratic government to have any part of us or we with them.

23   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 20th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

These verses are conditional and are idealist. We should not be concerned with how we interact with any human government, we should love and obey Christ and everything will take care of itself.

24   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
October 20th, 2009 at 8:13 pm

Perry Would take out a girl who says I don’t go to church to be entertained?

Why does he believe that Bible preaching is boring?

If their Goal is to preach Christ crucified, why is he preaching about bloggers and people in restaurants making comments?

Why is he name dropping anyone but Jesus (Rick Warren) instead of preaching the Gospel? Why not seek Jesus?

The South African received Christ? Did she repent? Why did Perry have so much pride that he wanted to brag to those poor girls in the restaurant?

Why does the S. African girl approach Perry like he is some sort of celebrity?

These are the questions I have about the video.

In a 5:19 video, I count ‘me’ and ‘I’ 43 times. Jesus’ name- 2x gospel- 3x It is all about Perry, make no mistake. The pride oozeth over.

25   Joe    
October 20th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

#19 and 24

John, all I can say when you type is “Wow.” I mean really, wow, wow, wow.

26   Jerry    http://www.dongoldfish.wordpress.com
October 20th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

PB,

read through your comment #24 and notice how many times you say ‘he’, ‘their’, ‘Perry’, etc. If Perry’s problem is spending too much time examining himself, yours is spending too much time examining everyone but yourself.

Hello Kettle?
This is the Pot.

jerry

27   Bo Diaz    
October 20th, 2009 at 11:48 pm

And PB demonstrates the addition that has been made by ADMs to the gospel. Noble clearly follows the 1 Corinthians 15 basics of the gospel, and yet PB can’t see it because he has added so much to the gospel that its not the gospel anymore. Its just another list of rules that God will spank you for not following.

28   Neil    
October 21st, 2009 at 12:06 am

Why does he believe that Bible preaching is boring?

I missed where he said this. Did he say this?

Why does the S. African girl approach Perry like he is some sort of celebrity?

It’s hard to say this w/o sounding condescending – but I kinda pity you and your nefarious mind… your obsession to see the dark lining in most anything no matter how neutral… your need/ability to condemn.

She cautiously approached a stranger at dinner with respect because he was dining with his family – and YOU twist this into something HE did wrong.

29   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
October 21st, 2009 at 6:27 am

“Why does the S. African girl approach Perry like he is some sort of celebrity?”

That is just biased criticism and is why credibility wanes. Have you ever watched as grown men at a Shepherd’s Conference watch MacArthur as if he was the Apostle Paul resurrected? They quote him as if everything he said was the Key to the Scriptures.

Celebrity is in every camp. (MacArthur, Bell, Warren, Osteen, Copeland, T.D.Jakes, etc.) The only one that looks at me like that is Rudy. :cool:

30   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
October 21st, 2009 at 7:36 am

#29 Well, it is how Noble described it.

And while he gave a very quick description of what the Gospel is, he spent the rest of the entire 5 minutes not preaching it. He was on his little self-justifying soap box. He spent more time saying how he wanted to hurt those girls or yell at them than he did on his ‘1 Cor 15′ description of the Gospel.

But, go ahead and defend one of your Popes of the Carolinas.

31   M.G.    
October 21st, 2009 at 8:28 am

He was on his little self-justifying soap box.

You realize, PB, that this describes every. single. interaction. you have around here, right?

But, go ahead and defend one of your Popes of the Carolinas.

It’s sad to see you parrot back everything you read on Ken Silva’s site. It’s as if you’re a child or something…

32   troy    http://www.sheepandgoats.blogspot.com
October 21st, 2009 at 8:47 am

“What is wrong with this video?” you ask. I laughed a little bit…is that wrong?

33   Bo Diaz    
October 21st, 2009 at 10:13 am

I’ve listened to several entire sermons by Perry Noble in hte past. He usually preaches for a pretty good chunk of time, up to 45 minutes at a time. This is a five minute clip from a sermon, posted by someone who likely isn’t Noble or working for him.

So when you criticize how much of the content is actually spent on the gospel, you’re either being incredibly naive and stupid, or deceptive.

But, go ahead and defend one of your Popes of the Carolinas.

And now you’re just being a douche bag.

34   Neil    
October 21st, 2009 at 11:01 am

And while he gave a very quick description of what the Gospel is, he spent the rest of the entire 5 minutes not preaching it…

At what point did a Gospel presentation become the acid test of a talk? And when did how you present the Gospel become the standard? My response to this is – “So what?”

You could lift whole sermons from my fellowship that do not present the four laws – again, “So what?”

Once again, John, you have choen to a) ignore the context, and b) argue from silence…

35   Neil    
October 21st, 2009 at 11:03 am

But, go ahead and defend one of your Popes of the Carolinas.

Up to now I have seen very little defending of him… and I have not defended him at all.

What I have done is address your pettines.

36   Neil    
October 21st, 2009 at 11:04 am

#29 Well, it is how Noble described it.

compound pettiness…

37   Neil    
October 21st, 2009 at 11:07 am

I know little… I know nothing of Noble.

But taking a step back for a moment.

What is the obssession with ridiculing those whith whom you disagree. PB, why can’t you just address the things with which you disagree and not lower the exchange to pettiness and complaints of style and arguments from silence?