Manliness is Next to Godliness (or something like that…)
I saw this post linked to by someone recently, and the guy who wrote it says that Christian men are big sissies. According to Mr. Daubenmire, we need man up and be more like Braveheart, John Wayne, and Clinton Eastwood. He puts it this way:
Needless to say, I am swimming upstream on this one. All day long they are taught in school to “act like Christians.” That is the problem, I tell them. Stop ACTING like a Christian and start BEING one.
But we don’t even know what that means. WWJL…What Was Jesus Like? I promise you this. He was all MAN. He confronted evil, challenged the status quo, upset some apple-carts, and spoke what was on His mind. He was the original “Braveheart.”
Come on now. Look around at the Christian role models our young men have to look up to. Most don’t even look like men. What is the word that pop culture has given us…metrosexuals…? Modern Christian men are the ultimate metrosexuals.
So, what say you? Are Christian men too metro? Too sensitive? Big weenies? More importantly, what does it actually mean to be a Christian man? How important is our masculinity as it relates to our identity in Christ? Of course, I have my opinion, but I’d be interested in hearing what others have to say (which probably makes me a sissy for asking, of course… 
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Just wondering, where is this guy from? Where I originate from Christian men work in construction and heavy labor jobs, farming, ranching, etc, if you know the type.
When I walked into my Christian college I just about fell over. Yes. Metrosexual. All these guys are from the city, of course.
It has less to do with one’s Christianity and more to do with geographic location, and probably also something to do with keeping up with the fashions of the world, which is a whole different commentary. If a “metro” guy walked into my church at home he’d be laughed out of the place (no offense to anybody). :p
Well, the address for the ministry the guy’s associated with is near Columbus, Ohio, so I don’t know what the testosterone levels are like there on a whole. I’ve been to Columbus a few times, and I didn’t feel any more or less manly…
Blog pimping in 3 , 2 , 1 …
— the mister scale —
I am 6′5″ 240 lbs. and I rode a Harley. Some of the most powerful and Godly men I have met are small in physical stature but large spiritually.
The “man” thing is a red herring and almost always is suggested by a man who fits his own description.
this is issue is more indicative of particular sub-culture preferences and socio-economic class status.
i’m so over it.
i’m not telling “manly men” to stop being masculine the way they are masculine.
please stop telling me that because I have good hygiene, and put “product” in my hair, i’m “chickified, limp-wristed, etc. etc. etc.”
it doesn’t mean i don’t enjoy all the stereotypically “male” things of our culture….
if you have a penis, you are a man and what you do is masculine.
this whole discussion rises from a segment of people who believe that “masculine” is a monolithic category.
it’s just not.
there are masculinities.
i’m not going to apologize for my interests, my education, my verbal skills, my kindness toward my wife and daughters, etc. etc.
and i’m certainly not going to buy the explicit or implicit message that my enjoyment of hunting, sporting events, fixing stuff around the house, etc. etc. is incongruent with the rest of who i am.
yeesh.
this does touch a nerve…
i wish we were so over this…
I am a real man. I eat mud and wash it down with cow urine. And I sing hymns in church while growling loudly.
And this post suggests that worship is being feminized.
A couple of statements inluded in the post:
“Men need to model such singing for their sons.” (So singing is not worship, it’s mentoring)
“With regard to the music of our psalms and hymns, we must return to a world of vigorous singing, vibrant anthems, more songs where the tenor carries the melody, open fifths, and glory.” (The tenor carries the melody?? Open fifths?? You can’t make this stuff up!)
An open fifth? That’s like a power chord on a guitar. I always appreciated Andy Summer’s use of open fifths with his work for The Police…
people are still trotting out that specific musical intervals are more godly than not?
ick.
Nathan – That reveals your musical carnality. Study Biblical numerology and you will find that minor keys and syncopation are both rejected by God as worshop vehicles.
A little known fact: The saxaphone was constructed in hell.
Shows what I know. I thought an open fifth would get you three hots and a cot in the county jail.
I thought an open fifth had to do with whiskey.
There are far worse quotes Rick could have pulled from that vomitous tripe.
I contend that there is nothing quite as self righteous than to suggest that your worship style is the one God actually receives. And I would ask Chris Lyons this question:
When Paul says we are to sing hymns and spiritual songs and psalms, does the word “psalms” refer to THE psalms or is the word a general reference to worship music in psalm form?
Neil – The writer says David was a warrior and does battle through his psalms, but how do explain God refusing to allow David to build the Temple because he was a man of war and spilled blood?
“tis but one of the obvious objections in that offering…
Many of the praise choruses we sing, the one’s he’d probably object to based on chords and repetition, are based on a Psalm.
#16 – I understand that, butb was Paul refering to singing one of the 150 psalms, or was he suggesting making pasalms and singing them? Did the Jews sing some psalms other than those in Scipture?
Even though my views are wellknow, I want to send a shout out to all veterans. I will always admire men and women who put their lives at risk.
Scotty – Are you listening?
So we have Eph 5:19:
Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord
And Col 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.
Rick – psalms (Gr. psalmois) almost definitely would refer to the inspired Psalms of the Hebrew Scriptures.
There is some debate on hymns ( Gr. humnois), which may also be from the Book of Psalms (some Psalms are literally entitled psalmois and some are literally entitled humnois). A more contextual reading would suggest humnois to refer more to songs that were once “spiritual songs”, but have since been passed down traditionally by previous generations of Christians . I tend to take this latter view.
“Spiritual Songs” (Gr. odais pneumatikais) also has some debate – where the most rigid interpretation is that they must be “inspired” songs (thus, poetry/songs taken from other parts of Scripture – ex. the Nunc Dimittis (Luke 2:29–32) or the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55) ) The contextual interpretation of “spiritual songs”, though, would suggest that the songs are written for a spiritual (or holy – “set apart”) purpose. I would strongly lean to this latter interpretation, as well. In fact, there are a few places where Paul quotes from “spiritual songs” of the first century (example – Philippians 2:6-11).
There are those who take this passage quite literally and condemn everything but the singing of unedited Psalms. I, on the other hand, would see this practice as more in line with religion (as a set of rituals) than in line with the kingdom (a way of living).
I would venture to observe that the classification of music and the debate around “what is acceptable” is probably the debate that most misses the point of what worship actually is when it seeks to impose rigid controls (which are usually based on personal taste disguised as biblical mandate).
I think men singing in church in key or off key should be as unto the Lord, and that is the model for children.
Of course you are a man’s man when you worship God, when you minister to your wife and raise your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Fatherhood is not for cowards- neither is being a teacher or preacher.
Of course, I am 6′3 and 250, play sports, shoot guns, and fish. But that is not what makes me a man. I am more concerned about what God sees, and he looks at the heart. In that, I want to be God’s man, a man after His heart.
@20.
bingo.
What makes me a man is my personal double helix.
I do find it odd that the person suggesting the feminization of church music has feminized the prophetic/discernment genre.
oh, no Rick.
There was Deborah.
That example only applies when in the hands of the ODM’s…
I find the entire masuline/feminine discussion as a diversion from the pursuit of true spirituality. The definition of what constitues a male is decidedly post modern and contexualized. And I find that women like Ingrid that castigate men and calls for them to get some “testosterone” are showcases of what a woman or a Christian should not be.
This sentence in the post is absolutely delusional.
“The current emphasis on ‘feeling worshipful’ is frankly masturbatory, which in men produces a cowardly and effeminate result.”
I guess certain words are OK when they are used in self righteous hatred. If Mark Driscoll had used that imagery these same goofballs would have called for his ordination. (Mark Driscoll fits their masculine role but he is still not in the club)
What we need here is another youtube link to the “…pisseth against the wall” sermon again. Wasn’t that his point? That too many men are sitting down to, uhumm, potty and not standing up like real men to do the business?
Exactly. I believe the term is “double minded” as opposed to “consistent”.