In my Sunday school class yesterday we discussed Advent and what it means to prepare for Christmas. We were able to highlight ways the secular culture prepares and the ways Scripture calls us to prepare for the coming of Christ (noting that sometimes the two can overlap).

I shared with the class why I abstained from shopping on Black Friday (the reasons listed above). One gentleman shared that he did go shopping but he didn’t shop for Christmas. He had a list of items he needed that he noted throughout the year. He used black friday as a day to go out and get those items at a deep discount. What was different about this is how he framed the whole thing: He was intentionally delaying gratification by putting something he needed in June on his list to buy in late November (a very non-consumeristic ethic) and finding ways to save money and subvert the consumer mentality of America by not buying what he wanted when he wanted it.

I thought that was brilliant and told him so.

This is a guy who is very conservative politically (and theologically) and yet on this issue neither one of us engaged in political rhetoric but affirmed the other in how we theologically considered this black friday. Even though we acted differently (he bought and I did not) in reality we were on the same page.

The snake is not segmented.

I do think that consumerism IS a problem – an idol for many – within America.

Agreed. Which was the ONLY point I was making throughout this entire thread. If you read comment 4 you will see that children working in sweat shops was only mentioned as an aside, as a way for myself to acknowledge that while consumption is a problem (of which you agree) so too is the fact that most of us don’t even know from where the things we consume comes from. Most of us live in a dream world that supposes fairies just drop our toys off at our stores. And if you watch the news you see how angry people get when the thing they “must have” is out of stock.

Me refraining from Black Friday was a way for ME to acknowledge that behind all the consumption of that day groans a million untold stories of women, men and children of all ages slaving away for untold hours in unjust conditions so that we could have fun.

See my comment 103 which elaborates on the reason why I did what I did.

This never became about kids and sweat shops until you and PB made the outrageous claim that it is better to buy things from sweat shops because it keeps them off the streets. I think that is unethical and is a form of operating “within” the world that is not in line with Kingdom living.

Not ONCE did I judge anyone for shopping nor did I EVER say this is how EVERYONE else should live. YOU made this political rather than theological when you began blathering about “bleeding hearts” and “left-wing” and “union thugs” and on and on. This is why I maintain (and will continue to maintain) that you are thinking politically rather than theologically.

Byron De La Beckwith
systematic theology

The article you cited brought it [race] into the conversation.

A couple things:
First, I never brought race into the conversation. If an article I bring up did it wasn’t the reason I introduced it.

Second, if an article does talk about race, so what? Deal with the issue rather than hiding behind “race card” (which is the same as just callling someone a moron or full of crap – it allows you to avoid the issue raised). Race is embedded in our world. It’s unavoidable. Racism still exists even though you may have a black friend, Chris L. Wake up.

Third, you said I interjected race with the “pro-slavery” argument. I did not. Read posts 25 and 55 where I was explicit:

It’s an argument that has nothing to do with race but with economy

it seems that it’s you, not me, who is paranoid about race.

I never pulled out the race card.

The article you cited brought it into the conversation. Neil also noted how tangential it was to the conversation.

You misunderstood (maybe you are getting defensive on that count for some reason?)

Whatever. No, It’s just tiring to see how race somehow needs to raise its head in your conversations. If anyone’s defensive (in denial?) on the issue, it’s you…

I certainly don’ inject it into conversations w/o cause.

And you fail to grasp the difference between “living in” and “operating in” the world’s systems. I explained that pretty well, I think, in 103 (and earlier).

I don’t fail to grasp the difference – I have to do so every day. If Jesus and Paul were living by your definitions on this particular topic, toppling Rome would have been explicitly on their “to do” list.

Instead, we find them operating within the systems, and working with Christians who are explicitly part of those systems.

I do think that consumerism IS a problem – an idol for many – within America. Saying “no” to debt-fueled spending is a problem with me, with the public at large, and particularly with the government. I’m a huge advocate of cutting back on spending – particularly any spending that generates taxes.

Even so, I’m not going to pretend that my not spending is going to help exploited children abroad. There are a lot of things I could do to help them – refusing to buy something one day a year isn’t one of them.

I never pulled out the race card. You misunderstood (maybe you are getting defensive on that count for some reason?)

And you fail to grasp the difference between “living in” and “operating in” the world’s systems. I explained that pretty well, I think, in 103 (and earlier).

And just .1 percent of overseas production is inhumane? Holy crap! That is better than in good ‘ol USA!