*UPDATE*  An earthquake hit Oklahoma today.  4.0 on the Richter.  No word from Pat yet on the pact that Oklahomians had made with the devil.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.html

Not much comment is needed for this one.  And no, I’m not sorry about the title.  I probably didn’t put it strongly enough.

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The people in Haiti need our prayers, our relief and support.  We should mourn with those who mourn, not look for ways to suggest that they sold their souls to the devil and got their just deserts.

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This entry was posted on Thursday, January 14th, 2010 at 2:14 am and is filed under Church and Society, Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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87 Comments(+Add)

1   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 6:53 am

Let me repeat what I said in comment 215 in the Double Standard thread:

“He is a disgrace to the name of Christ.”

At the risk of being seen as an opportunist, this is what can happen when we look at people as “Haitians” instead of “people”. Also, how ridiculous is it to suggest Haiti sold out to the devil and America hasn’t?

All this coming from a multi-multi millionaire gained from a “Christian” ministry. (As a side note – he is a political conservative :) )

2   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 8:07 am

At least we now know God really hates certain sinners. How bad must God’s hate be for a Haitian who is gay, emergent, Roman Catholic, and a committed socialist?

He must walk on the fault line. :cool:

3   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 8:44 am

Sadly, the disbelieving world will hear Pat’s comments and that will drown out much of what the church of Jesus Christ truly believes and does during a time of suffering like this.

I have to say the request in the title of this OP mirrors my own feelings towards Christians in the public arena who write or say things that justify violence or war or argue against universal health care because of their political ideologies or who think it is perfectly OK that 11AM Sunday morning remains the most segregated hour in America.

Such people make me want to say, Please. Shut. The. Hell. Up…Literally.

4   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 8:48 am

Pat and Rush are from the same nut, it appears.

This ARTICLE reminds me of the insane arguments on the Double Standard thread being put forth. Ridiculous.

5   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 8:49 am

If the link above doesn’t work try this:

http://www.sphere.com/politics/article/rush-limbaugh-sees-red-over-obamas-response-to-haiti-earthquake/19315905

6   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 9:24 am

This ARTICLE reminds me of the insane arguments on the Double Standard thread being put forth. Ridiculous.

While I disagree w/ Rush on this one (apart from pointing out the total lack of seriousness on the part of the administration in dealing w/ Captain Underpants), I’m not sure how this ties in to the Double Standard thread (or that there are any “insane arguments” going on there). Listening to the audio feed, it was pretty obvious that Limbaugh was mocking Reid’s comments, not making stand-alone observations on race.

Even so, I don’t think a disaster like the current crisis in Haiti is the place to be scoring political points, or claiming that God has it in for folks there. I was just as ticked at preachers like Robertson who declared that Katrina was God’s judgment on New Orleans. There is a time and place for politics, and an ongoing natural disaster isn’t one of them.

7   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 9:30 am

I have to say the request in the title of this OP mirrors my own feelings towards Christians in the public arena who write or say things that justify violence or war or argue against universal health care because of their political ideologies or who think it is perfectly OK that 11AM Sunday morning remains the most segregated hour in America.

Blah, blah, blah.

A) I don’t justify violence or war or argue against government dependency and financial irresponsibility out of “political ideology”, but out of basic theological beliefs – that God is a god of justice who puts powers in place for a purpose (of which maintaining order and defense are biblical mandates), and that when they act outside that God-given purpose or are irresponsible in their stewardship, they should be called on it.

B) “11AM Sunday morning remains the most segregated hour in America.”
1) prove it;
2) even if it were true (which I’m not suggesting it is), that doesn’t automatically make it anti-kingdom (as has been demonstrated with your silly hypothetical on the other thread).

8   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 9:58 am

I don’t justify violence or war or argue against government dependency and financial irresponsibility out of “political ideology

”,

I have no doubt that you believe that

9   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:09 am

Did you all really listen to him?

He made an observation, a historical statement that Haitians did this. (Some say the devil they called was the US)

And another observation that that would bring about God’s judgment, and this could be a part of His judgment

Then he said but Haiti needs our help and our relief and prayers that this would finally lead them to repentance.

Of course, none of the usual suspects like Rob Bell or NT Wright or Pagitt would ever say any such thing. But they would also believe that simply sending aid is the gospel.

I said it before, I will say it again. I believe the USA deserves a much harsher judgment. We have the Gospel and God’s mercy and grace over us for these 234 years of our history, and we take that and flip a finger at God, curse his name, reject his Word, and his prophets. Those in this nation will have a lot to give account for on the day of judgment.

I might also say that Haiti is another example of what we will become if we continue down the path that we are on currently with our lack of the rule of law, the whoremongers and greedy thieves in our government, and the lack of constitutional constraint we see at the federal level.

Haiti and the US cannot be changed with money and aid. The Gospel is the only thing on an individual level that can change a nation. Lord have mercy on us.

All this being said, we need to support immediate disaster aid and food aid and medical aid in Haiti. Here is where I am giving:http://www.cmalliance.org/give/relief/

I invite you to join me in giving to the immediate relief in Haiti.

10   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 10:10 am

I have no doubt that you believe that

That’s because it’s true. Biblical “just war” and self-defense have been around in communities of God for millennia longer than any modern country, and their underpinnings are written in Scripture – as “least worst” options, when all else fails.

11   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:16 am

#10 – I have no doubt you believe that to be true. I’ve watched you justify all sorts of things and you do it well.

12   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:17 am

I may go against the grain here a bit. As I listened to what Robertson said in that clip, I actually didn’t here him outright say that the earthquake was a result of Haiti’s pact with the devil, although, he did seem to imply that.

I actually asked my friends from Trinidad about this last night, and they tended to agree with Robertson. It certainly does seem like Haiti is under a curse to them. If you fly across the island, you can see a line where Haiti ends and the Dominican Republic begins. Haiti is brown and desolate, and the DR is green and lush. The difference is quite stark according to them.

Now I do think that Robertson probably should have been more careful, and this probably wasn’t the time to talk about this particular thing, but I often wonder if the reason why some Americans get uncomfortable with this has more to do with the fact that we simply don’t want to acknowledge the existence of demonic forces.

Personally, I find this type of thing (attributing evil and suffering to the demonic or Satan) much less offensive than John Piper’s pronouncement that a tornado was God’s wrath against the ELCA.

13   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 10:20 am

PB – Your view of divine intervention and punishment as it applies to nations is Old Testament and in fact medieval. God doesn’t deal with nations in that way today.

Germany made a similar pact and killed 6 million Jews and caused 50 million deaths and yet thrives today in a humanistic ambiance. The same with Japan.

But God takes His vengeance out on poor, little Haiti. Of course the underground fault line is just coincidence that was created 5500 years ago ready to cause death and devestation. Some believers died in Haiti as well, but such is the price of divine war.

14   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 10:25 am

Robertson’s views are a slice away from Tarat cards. America murders 2 million unborn, defenseless babies ayear and we are blessed, but Haiti gets the brunt of God’s wrath. Why doesn’t God create an earthquake where there is no faultline and destroy Sweden or Argentina or Iran or North Korea and really step up and show He’s a Great God.

Haiti?? That’s all you got, God?? You talk a big game but in truth all you got is Haiti??

That’s not Christianity, that’s superstition.

15   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:29 am

Phil,
One can believe in demonic forces (as I do) and still think Robertson’s comments are way off the mark.

16   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 10:29 am

It rains of the just and the unjust, you morons less than informed fellow humans.

17   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:32 am

Personally, I find this type of thing (attributing evil and suffering to the demonic or Satan) much less offensive than John Piper’s pronouncement that a tornado was God’s wrath against the ELCA.

They are one and the same. Both comments are ludicrous and shouldn’t have been said.

18   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 10:34 am

Let’s do the tally:

GOD’S JUDGMENT

* Hurricane Katrina
* California fires
* Haiti earthquake
* Robertson prays away a hurricane

GOD’S BLESSING

* Hugh Hefner’s wealth and longevity
* The abortion mill called America has more food than sense
* German ingenuity
* Chinese prosperity

Tea leaves, folks. And it undermines our credibility and more importantly the gospel.

19   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:36 am

Rick, you must be blind.

The wrath of God is going on all around us. The abortions you mention? The horrible crime of infanticide? These are all evidences that the wrath of God is being poured out. The crime rate, poverty, corrupt government, wars, earthquakes, tornadoes…God knows all of these things and they are evidence that His wrath is being poured out. If it were not for His daily grace and mercy we would all be eradicated.

I agree with Pat and others who say take the opportunity of crisis to repent and trust Jesus. But I would not reccommend waiting for Crisis, I am sure that there are thousands of Haitians who did not go to bed thinking that it would be their last day.

20   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 10:37 am

BTW – Haiti only irritates God. He really, really hates Sumatra.

21   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:38 am

He really, really hates Sumatra

But they have great coffee beans!

22   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:40 am

Phil,
One can believe in demonic forces (as I do) and still think Robertson’s comments are way off the mark.

Of course. Like I said, I’m not all out endorsing his remarks or anything. It just seems to me that mentioning anything about the demonic always invokes a strong reaction from people.

I do find the historical thing he mentioned very interesting. What he said about the leaders of Haiti making a pact with the devil was basically true. I don’t think that it is connected to this particular natural disaster, but I certainly do think that the spiritual history of a nation can reap things in the physical.

Right now, the reason why this happened (which I don’t think there has to be a reason why) isn’t important. The main thing is that the Church mobilizes to help those affected. The love of God and power of the Holy Spirit is stronger than any curse of the Enemy. I just pray that God’s redemptive love can be revealed to those who have experienced this even though I have a hard understanding how it will be.

23   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 10:40 am

#19 – A convoluted perspective. I remember my theology professor referencing how a hurricane leveled a bar in iami in the 60’s. He said God just got tired of it. I asked him why God also leveled scores of churches and he had no answer.

This is the age of grace. God’s wrath was poured out upon Christ and that is the current offer. While Noah was building the ark God wasn’t drowing some people to warn others. They were free to walk into that ark.

So it is in these days.

24   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
January 14th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Personally, I find this type of thing (attributing evil and suffering to the demonic or Satan) much less offensive than John Piper’s pronouncement that a tornado was God’s wrath against the ELCA.

They are one and the same. Both comments are ludicrous and shouldn’t have been said.

Well, it’s not entirely clear to me if Robertson is saying that the earthquake was God’s wrath for this supposed curse, or if the earthquake itself was Satanic in origin. If it’s the former, I would agree with you Chad. If it’s the latter, I would tend to disagree.

I think one of the worst things that Christians can do is attribute evil to the Father. I have heard many Christians say very stupid things to sick people or people who have lost family members. I’ve heard people say things like, “well it must have been God’s will that your mom passed” or whatever. Really? It was God’s will that someone’s mother suffer horribly from cancer and die in pain? If that’s God’s will, than I don’t think I want anything to do with a Father who would will that on his children.

25   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 10:50 am

When siamese twins are born, is that God’s curse or Satan’s? When a baby is killed by a boyfriend? To attribute disasters to God or satan is dangerous. We do know that God will use tragedy for redemptive purposes in others. That is all we actually do know.

26   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 11:07 am

It is not His will, Phil, but because of the curse he knows it is happening, and allows it to happen. Such is the curse of man, brought on by sin. Death is the curse of sin.

27   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 11:17 am

Chad: “11AM Sunday morning remains the most segregated hour in America.”

OK Chad, I get it. You read a book (this line is taken directly from MLK) and you’re running with it. Tremendous.

Thankfully, we meet at 1pm and we have 3-4 white people in our congregration.

Phil: Haiti is brown and desolate, and the DR is green and lush. The difference is quite stark according to them.

This is true. I’ve been to Haiti and the first thing you notice upon landing is that there are virtually no trees on the mountains. But it’s because they have cut them down for charcoal (cooking). Not because of any other phenomenon.

We have a ton of friends in Haiti. It is truly devastating. We truly have no idea.

Judgment will be poured out on this world, to be sure, as sin piles up continuously, but we are to mourn and pray for mercy in the face of such devastation.

28   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
January 14th, 2010 at 11:26 am
Chad: “11AM Sunday morning remains the most segregated hour in America.”

OK Chad, I get it. You read a book (this line is taken directly from MLK) and you’re running with it. Tremendous.

Thankfully, we meet at 1pm and we have 3-4 white people in our congregration.

I actually laughed out loud at that line… It’s a good thing you chose not to meet at the appointed segregationalist hour!

This is true. I’ve been to Haiti and the first thing you notice upon landing is that there are virtually no trees on the mountains. But it’s because they have cut them down for charcoal (cooking). Not because of any other phenomenon.

Well, yes, that’s correct. My friend actually pointed that out as well. I wasn’t trying to say that it was necessarily desolate as a result of the land being cursed or anything. It is desolate because of the overwhelming poverty in the country. It just seems to me that there is a spiritual aspect of poverty that many Americans are uncomfortable addressing.

29   Jerry    http://www.dongoldfish.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 11:30 am

I think all television preachers ought to be banned and their civil rights revoked. television ‘evangelism’ has ruined the local church and created a mutation of the x-tian faith. and worse.

if I ever become president, and i will, that’s going to be the main plank in my platform–and i will win on that platform thank you very much. i accept the nomination.

television preachers have done more to harm the kingdom of god than all the Caesars and Pharaoh’s in the world: It has made us dumb, mindless, apathetic.

30   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

OK Chad, I get it. You read a book (this line is taken directly from MLK) and you’re running with it. Tremendous.

Thankfully, we meet at 1pm and we have 3-4 white people in our congregration.

I’m glad you and Phil can get a laugh out of something that is an indictment to all of us as Christians.

Paul, it has nothing to do with what I have read in a book but everything to do with what I have studied and experienced first hand.

Do you deny that Sunday morning worship (whichever hour that falls on) is the most segregated time of the week in America? If so, on what grounds?

We have done church demographic studies in the UMC nation wide as well as through other denoms and the numbers don’t lie. Even in my own county here in NC there are no integrated churches. My own church which I pastor is all white (save my 2 kids) and 3 miles down the road is the all black church – same denomination, same mode of worship, even the same looking building. This is the NORM everywhere you look around here.

My remarks have been consistent throughout and I stand by each of them. If Christians see NO PROBLEM with that picture, then we have a problem. At least I am willing to admit that all is not well and am willing to do something about it. Based on the comments of many of you here, it seems you see no problem with that picture and are perfectly content with the status-quo. I am not.

31   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

Here is a good article (one of many) that bears all the above out in a decent way:

http://www.baptiststandard.com/2002/4_29/pages/segregation.html

32   Neil    
January 14th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

Chad,

i must say how impressed i am that you so adeptly tied universal health care and church membership quotas to pat robertson asinine statements.

33   M.G.    
January 14th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

That’s the the runner-up in the 1988 Republican Iowa Caucuses for you (ahead of the future President, mind you).

If only he’d been elected President. I think we’d not have any of the problems over these past 20 years. (This is not an endorsement of Robertson’s positions. Just a statement of my undying affection.) :)

34   Neil    
January 14th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

And another observation that that would bring about God’s judgment, and this could be a part of His judgment… – pastorboy

“could” being the operative word. and since pat has no way of actually knowing – i agree with chris l., chad, and rick on this one.

35   Neil    
January 14th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

I do find the historical thing he mentioned very interesting. What he said about the leaders of Haiti making a pact with the devil was basically true. I don’t think that it is connected to this particular natural disaster, but I certainly do think that the spiritual history of a nation can reap things in the physical. – phil miller

in general i agree. but this does not excuse making such comments immediately after such a tragedy.

36   Neil    
January 14th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

is pat robertson ascribe to prosperity theology? this is very consistent with that.

37   Neil    
January 14th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

what pat fail to mention in his contrast of haiti and the dominican republic is how much of the latter’s wealth is generated from a system that pretty much enslaved haitians to work in the sugar cane fields.

38   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

Robertson is a health and wealth preacher who has made multi-millions off followers. He is a heretic and a liar.

39   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

I’m glad you and Phil can get a laugh out of something that is an indictment to all of us as Christians.

I fail to see how this is so. Our doors are open to everyone and we welcome everyone equally.

I have started a new church outreach (in Oct) and we speak to everyone, distribute materials equally and so on. If the majority of people who come end up being West Indian, what would you like me to do Chad?

Again, I get it. You’re a “cause” guy. You’ve read a book and been to a few sensitivity training classes. Excellent.

I acknowledge that there is an issue of racism within the church, as this can’t be denied. It is sin and blindness. It should be preached against. No one here (that I can see) is saying it is not sinful, damaging and the like.

40   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
January 14th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

I’m glad you and Phil can get a laugh out of something that is an indictment to all of us as Christians.

Paul, it has nothing to do with what I have read in a book but everything to do with what I have studied and experienced first hand.

First of all, Chad, chill out… I wasn’t laughing at the actual phenomenon of segregated churches, but rather Paul’s clever response to you. I actually thought that his response was genuinely funny.

The thing I would say about this, is perhaps we should try looking at this from the other side. I know because I my membership in the Church universal I have brothers and sisters throughout the world whom I will never meet. I know that no matter where I go, I will find people who love Jesus. To me, that is something worth celebrating.

The fact that demographic of a local church is a certain way can be a problem, but it isn’t always. Right now, the church I attend is pretty much considered the “black” church in our community. There are some white people (probably less than 15% of the members), but this doesn’t nearly represent the demographics of our community. Actually, there are other churches in our town that probably are more racially diverse. Does that mean that we should become more white? I don’t think so. The way that the church started wasn’t really as result of racism as much as it was that a group of students got together and started having a Bible Study. They happened to be mostly black. There have always been white people involved, but they have never been the majority. I believe if the church were forced to look a certain way demographically, it just wouldn’t be the same. We do cooperate with other churches in town on a regular basis, and there is a good amount of communication between the members of churches. I guess I just don’t see what is gained by saying that church must look a certain way.

41   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

Oh and look, Chad, you should like Robertson. 50% of that on screen crew is black! He is practicing racial reconciliation!

42   Neil    
January 14th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

I fail to see how this is so. Our doors are open to everyone and we welcome everyone equally. – paul c.

i suspect saying you welcome everyone equally is not enough, according to chad.

i suspect it’s not enough for a white church to just “say” it welcomes all races – since they are inherently racist as a privileged institution.

not sure what a church of color must do…

while it may be true that churches have self-segregated themselves (is that redundant) i don’t see the tragedy in this if they work together and worship together at times.

43   Mike    
January 14th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

I have to agree about Robertson’s timing and topic being just bad. Let’s suppose that he had incontrovertible proof that God had sent that earthquake because Haiti was cursed.

So what. Would he really need to share that truth with the rest of the world, especially at this time?

A good friend of mine used to say, “just because it’s true, doesn’t mean it needs to be spoken… some truths are meant to remain between you and God…”

44   Nathanael    http://www.borrowedbreath.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

I thought this link was interesting.

HT Peter Rollins

45   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

Nathaneal – Let them eat mud, it’s God’s will because some politicians “mad a pact with the devil”. “Christian” superstition is alive and well.

Assigning divine motive to calamities is big business. It breeds fear; it assumes you are on the rightside of God; and it brings in the money. The latest cold spell in Florida was God’s judgment because Florida voted for Obama. (A pact with the devil)

46   Jerry    http://www.dongoldfish.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

Television preachers have made a pact with the devil.

47   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

Pat Robertson is worth between 200 million and 1 billion dollars. He owns many businesses and enjoys horse racing. He is a hypocrite and when people like PB defend him they only sully their own reputation.

What part of “Do not store up treasures on earth” did he not understand?

48   Paul C    http://thepathtolife.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

I find this oddly striking. Go to CBN.com.

Up along the top you see a banner ad for a movie called “The Book of Eli” – rated “R”. Right below is a little disclaimer:

Rated R for some brutal violence and language. Viewer caution advised.

I think Pat Robertson is viewed pretty much as a court jester. Does anyone take him seriously?

In an interesting turn of events, Mr. Robertson is now claiming that he did not say ‘Haiti’ but ‘Hades’, in that ‘Hades made a pact with the devil’. of course, his dates were a little off (1804).

I hope this clears things up for the naysayers here.

49   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

His new book “Right on the Money” teaches you how to:

* Create a roadmap to wealth

and

* Build a wealth engine

Oh yea, he’s a real preacher of the gospel.

50   merry    
January 14th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

What everyone failed to mention was that the pact was only for 200 years and ended in 2004.

If we’re going to talk bad theology, rationally it would seem that rather than being caused by God, this earthquake was caused by Satan, out of jealousy as he watches these people grow closer to God.

Oh wait–there’s no being rational with bad theology. The earthquake was caused by God because he hates everyone. Interesting that it’s been the biggest earthquake in over 200 years….no earthquake related judgements during the actual time of the pact. Even though countless weather problems caused pain and grief to the rest of the world during that time.

Come on….. :(

51   nathan    
January 14th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

even if Robertson is correct, what purpose does it serve to make statements about Haiti being cursed in the middle of the crisis?

who was helped by this?

what Haitians lives are changed by this “truth”?

Even if it was true, it’s crappy timing and obtuse.

The sad thing is that it’s really only some Christians who are embarrassed by Robertson.

The fact that the money pours in to him and keeps him around shows how that a lot of Christians support the guy.

It’s time for leaders to call him out and distance themselves publicly from Robertson.

There needs to be an outpouring of public outrage at his comments from leaders who have platforms and he needs to be marginalized.

Until that happens, we’ll all get lumped in with him.

And PB, shame on you for trying to justify any part of what Robertson has to say on this.

52   Neil    
January 14th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

Did you all really listen to him? – pastorboy

yes i did and here are just a few of the failures of his theology:

prosperity or poverty are things we can use to judge god’s pleasure with a nation – this is not biblical.

god will judge or bless a geo-political nation based on their response to him, his word, his son – this is not biblical.

that political leaders can make pacts with satanic forces that will condemn populations to poverty for hundred of years – this is not biblical.

three strikes and you are out mr. robertson.

53   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 14th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

BTW – The people who follow Robertson and those like him also vote. He is politically active and conservative. Can you imagine a God who sends His Son to die for the world and then gets some divine justice by whipping up on poor little Haiti while whore monger millionaires around the world sip champagne and eat caviar?

It is no wonder why people reject Christ – He’s seldom introduced accurately.

54   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 7:28 pm

Robertson’s antics and false doctrines are matched on this site by a certain Dukie regularly.

Where Pat says that these could be the judgements of God, the Dukie points out that there will be no judgment of God.

I do not know which is worse theology. I prefer to listen to neither.

55   Neil    
January 14th, 2010 at 8:10 pm

I do not know which is worse theology. I prefer to listen to neither.

yet you defended the former…

56   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

Dukie points out that there will be no judgment of God.

John Chisham,
Where have I EVER said that? You are a liar or an idiot.

57   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 14th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

The above should read “and/or” because I suspect you are both.

58   Neil    
January 15th, 2010 at 12:32 am

chad,

when i saw that he said that, i wondered if it were true… since i do not remember you making any comments on the subject.

as we saw in the other thread, pastorboy likes to put words into other people’s mouths.

59   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 2:14 am

56 how do you know I was refering to you?

60   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 2:16 am

I did not defend PR’s theology, I stated that he did not say what you thought he said.

I hate CBN and the theology of their founder, but it is not right to accuse a man of something he never said.

61   chris    
January 15th, 2010 at 7:30 am

but it is not right to accuse a man of something he never said.

Crap! I just bought a new irony meter and now it just exploded. Curses!

62   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 7:55 am

how do you know I was refering to you?

Like I said, you are probably both.

63   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 7:56 am

What did he not say that someone said he did? Careful, there is a large cache of goofy and heretical things he has said.

64   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 8:28 am

A non-practicing Jew has a better grasp of God than many Christians, it seems (I’m not surprised).

65   John Hughes    
January 15th, 2010 at 8:37 am

#61 – Chris. You owe me new key board as I just spewed out my Diet Coke. ROTFL.

66   chris    
January 15th, 2010 at 8:38 am

A non-practicing Jew has a better grasp of God than many Christians, it seems (I’m not surprised).

Uh..oh. He played the Jew liberal comedian card again. *ducks*

67   Neil    
January 15th, 2010 at 11:11 am

I hate CBN and the theology of their founder, but it is not right to accuse a man of something he never said. – pastorboy

i’m not sure how you wer capable of typing those words given your frequent habit of creating hypothetical conversations. that said, robertson’s point was chrystal clear, and consistent with his previous bloviatings.

and you did defend his statements.

68   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 11:18 am

“I hate CBN and the theology of their founder, but it is not right to accuse a man of something he never said.”

Except the times he is harsh and piously judgmental – those I really like. :cool:

69   Pastorboy    http://crninfo.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 11:34 am

67 No, I stated what he said. I stated that what he said was not what he was portrayed as being said, or even what you chose to hear.

It is amazing that you treat PR like he is Rob Bell, reading into what he is saying and, in PR’s case making him wrong, and in RB’s case making him right.

I just stated that PR did not say what you say he said. Do you know what I am sayin?

70   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

I’ve updated this post with this news.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.html

Earthquake in Oklahoma. No word from Pat yet on the pact they made with the devil.

71   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

Chris – A 4.0 earthquake only indicates a pact with a lesser demon. Above 7.0 is with the chief himself.

72   John Hughes    
January 15th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

Hey. Danny Glover said its Gaia’s revenge on Copenhagen.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/pact_with_gaia/

It seems the entire cosmic pantheon is mad a Haiti.

73   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

We in Florida (Scotty?) just came off the coldest streak in history. God has protected us from global warming.

Repent – everyone else!!

74   Jerry    http://www.dongoldfish.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

I saw that Danny Glover comment and about threw up. I hope some of our liberal friends chime in and tell us how stupid he is.

75   M.G.    
January 15th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

While I’m a moderate, really, and not a liberal, I’ll chime in. (I’m actually something of a devotee of the Economist. What does that make me, a European conservative? A Tory? I do like David Cameron quite a lot.)

Regardless, Danny Glover’s comment was stupid.

76   Neil    
January 15th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

Re 69:
you can try and spin and massage and nuance all ya like… we all know exactly what pat robertson said and meant…

now, if you wanna hitch your wagon to that unbiblical misanthropy, fine. but don’t try and twist this into something else.

77   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

Pat Robertson – ODM likes and dislikes

DISLIKES

* Words of knowledge
* Healing
* Seed faith
* Prosperity
* Ecumenical
* Women preachers

LIKES

* Judgment on gays
* Republican activism
* God’s judgment in certain catastrophes
* Patriotism

Quiz – Where is the Sermon on the Mount in any of it?

78   Christian P    http://www.churchvoices.com
January 15th, 2010 at 8:32 pm

Read this article: http://seldomwrong.blogspot.com/2010/01/more-on-haitis-pact-with-devil.html

It comes from a very well read, very intelligent, very grounded, Christian teacher and N.T. scholar. If you ever need somebody to be able to read something difficult (be it a book, article, statement, or situation) and bring out the reality of what is being said, he can do it.

79   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

Good link, Christian. I left a Fruehesque comment on that blog. Perhaps I was not as clear as I could have been. :cool:

80   Scotty    http://scottysplace-scotty.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 9:28 pm

We in Florida (Scotty?) just came off the coldest streak in history.

It’s been 75 degrees and sunny over on my side, Rick. Who did YOU make a pact with…… ;)

81   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 9:33 pm

Obama.

82   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 9:45 pm

Glover’s comment was stupid. I’m not sure why people “hope” their liberal “friends” will chime in to say the obvious. What does that prove?

I haven’t seen any of the so-called liberals here doggedly defending a political side of the aisle. If someone here thinks that is the case, they are not reading very closely.

83   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 15th, 2010 at 10:25 pm

Perspective is a funny thing. I consider all the writers here as liberal. Funny but true.

84   Chad    http://www.chadholtz.wordpress.com
January 15th, 2010 at 10:33 pm

Satan responds to Pat Robertson:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/01/the_devil_writes_pat_robertson.html?sc=fb&cc=fp

85   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 17th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

Let us get our facts straight.

Slaves overthrow their French masters = pact with the devil.

Colonies overthrow the British = pact with God.

There will be a quiz.

86   Chris    
January 17th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

Rick can I get a hint?

87   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
January 17th, 2010 at 7:33 pm

chris – Robertson will gladly tutor. (for a seed faith gift)