“The legalists can never live up to the expectations they project on God.”

–Brennan Manning, The Ragamuffin Gospel, 40

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This entry was posted on Thursday, August 26th, 2010 at 1:00 pm and is filed under grace, quote. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
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32 Comments(+Add)

1   nc    
August 26th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

but they’re sure good at expecting everyone else to.

2   John Hughes    
August 26th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

“The legalists can never live up to the expectations they project on God.”

While the anitnomians are never sure about anything.

3   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 26th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

Paradox:

Is it legalism to insist no one should be a legalist? :)

4   nc    
August 26th, 2010 at 10:50 pm

@John Hughes…

oh contraire, mon frere… ;)

Antinomians are quite sure of at least one thing.

5   John Hughes    
August 27th, 2010 at 7:17 am

#4 – The current jail status of Lindsay Lohan doesn’t count.

6   pastorboy    http://www.riveroflifealliance.com
August 27th, 2010 at 9:05 am

The antinomians project their lack of obedience to the clear teachings of scripture as the way it ought to be done by everyone, and in that way become legalists.

7   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
August 27th, 2010 at 10:02 am

I’m curious to what areas people here think we (or other Christians they have in mind) are antinomian. It seems like a rather knee-jerk reaction whenever legalism is brought up. I’d just like to know what the charge is based upon.

8   nathan    
August 27th, 2010 at 10:48 am

I’ve yet to meet a true antinomian who has thrown it all to the wind.

I’ve only seen antinomian used when someone actually won’t bow to someone’s more stringent interpretation of wisdom issues.

9   Jerry    http://www.jerryhillyer.com
August 27th, 2010 at 11:05 am

I think it is fun to watch these threads and see what side of the argument people align themselves with.

10   pastorboy    http://www.riveroflifealliance.com
August 27th, 2010 at 11:52 am

#7 Phil, for example:
The Bible says “Be not drunk with wine, which is dissipation, instead be filled with the Spirit” Now, the legalist will take that and say “You should not drink any alcoholic beverage” The antinomian “God’s grace has saved me, and as long as I eat and drink to the Lord, it is all good! If I get drunk once in a while, I can just ask for forgiveness!

Its this idea that we can go on sinning so that grace may increase. It is called 1 John 1:9 ‘christianity’ where we use the grace of God as a license to sin.

11   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 27th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

“I’ve yet to meet a true antinomian who has thrown it all to the wind.”

The late Dr. Gene Scott.

12   john hughes    
August 27th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

Hey, I was just trying to be funny. No dark motive here.

13   John Hughes    
August 27th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

#7 – Phil both “legalist” and “antinomian” are very polarized catch phrases. However, I’ve seen “legalist” used more dismissively and as a club than “anitnomian”.

14   Nathanael    http://www.borrowedbreath.com/
August 27th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

#10 And a reasonable man will reply, “The Bible forbids drunkenness, but not drinking alcohol. The Bible forbids gluttony, but not eating food.”

Why does everything always have to be a pendulum effect?

15   Nathanael    http://www.borrowedbreath.com/
August 27th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

It takes less discernment to paint something as black and white, or label it as right or wrong, than it does to take each scenario on its own and evaluate it.

16   nathan    
August 27th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

@john hughes…

i hear you, friend.

I think people inevitably react more to pb…

17   Jerry    http://www.jerryhillyer.com
August 27th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

John,

The Bible also commanded Timothy to drink some wine for his stomach.

The Bible also says that wine makes a man happy.

The Bible also says that Jesus turned water into wine.

Your way of polarizing such things is disturbing to say the least.

jerry

18   Jerry    http://www.jerryhillyer.com
August 27th, 2010 at 4:17 pm

My point being, the Bible says a lot of things about wine and it is difficult to narrow it down to a black and white issue.

19   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 27th, 2010 at 6:57 pm

If you drink wine you are not saved. :cool:

20   Jerry    http://www.jerryhillyer.com
August 27th, 2010 at 7:02 pm

Well, then I am seriously lost.

21   Jerry    http://www.jerryhillyer.com
August 27th, 2010 at 7:02 pm

Sometimes I even drink real wine on Sunday mornings during communion when I break bread with my Anglican friends.

22   Jerry    http://www.jerryhillyer.com
August 27th, 2010 at 7:03 pm

And sometimes I am drunk on the Spirit.

23   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 27th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

there are only two kinds of professing believers:

Those who sin willfully while in the grace of God

and

Those who sin willfully by claiming they don’t.

(If grace must be authenticated by works then faith alone cannot save anyone.)

24   nathan    
August 27th, 2010 at 7:47 pm

i’m thankful for wine.

25   pastorboy    http://www.riveroflifealliance.com
August 27th, 2010 at 9:15 pm

I am thankful for wine also; The Bible does not teach that it is wrong to drink alcohol. It warns, as Nathanel says, about being under the control of wine (or food, or tobacco, or caffeine) or anything other than the Spirit of God.

Anything that adds to the strictness of the requirements of scripture is legalism. Anyone who believes that they can be saved by the keeping of the law is not a Christian (see Galatians) Anyone who believes that they can go on sinning so that grace may increase is a fool, and likely not a believer.

26   pastorboy    http://www.crninfo.wordpress.com
August 27th, 2010 at 9:45 pm

Yeah…Catholicism is a nice religion…

Grace is transformational, it changes you…a believer cannot swim in the swill of sin and feel comfortable and even enjoy it.

**I have issues with the videotaping by the parents also…How he walked out alive is an example of grace.

27   nathan    
August 28th, 2010 at 10:09 am

Anyone who believes that they can go on sinning so that grace may increase is a fool, and likely not a believer.

I’ve never met anyone who actually believes that…

28   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 28th, 2010 at 10:45 am

#27 – I have not as well. However I have not met anyone who does not go on sinning and whose lives are accurate reflections of God’s redemptive grace because they sin daily, regularly, and often by word, thought, and deed.

Perhaps the greatest of all sins is denying our sin. Grace does change you, but it still leaves us completely imperfect and susceptible to think more highly of ourselves than we ought simply because we do not do some things we did before.

One side uses grace as an excuse for sin while the other uses it as a platform for self righteousness.

29   opus    
August 28th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

John ,
The link you provided has malware

30   pastorboy    http://www.riveroflifealliance.com
August 28th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

opus,

It does not do anything to my apple, sorry

31   Neil    
August 29th, 2010 at 11:36 am

The Bible says “Be not drunk with wine, which is dissipation, instead be filled with the Spirit” Now, the legalist will take that and say “You should not drink any alcoholic beverage” The antinomian “God’s grace has saved me, and as long as I eat and drink to the Lord, it is all good! If I get drunk once in a while, I can just ask for forgiveness! – pastorboy

in the church and on-line, i have met far more of the former…

32   Neil    
August 29th, 2010 at 11:37 am

If you drink wine you are not saved. :cool:

which is why i drink beer.