HT: Andy
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on Friday, December 3rd, 2010 at 12:01 am and is filed under It's Friday, Open Thread.
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43 Comments(+Add)
I saw this earlier this week. At first it sort of surprised me that people did not stand up. But then I realized that if my parents had never taken me to see Handel’s Messiah, I would not know to stand up at the Hallelujah chorus either.
Got goosebumps several times.
Great video.
Shalom
Ingrid said she wept openly. I just saw some good singers entertaining a group of people who were spending a lot of time and money to celebrate a man made observance marked by sentamentalism, hedonism, and religous tradition. All that was missing was a little straw and…um…oh yes, Jesus.
In truth, what PB does is light years more spiritual than the constant drone of Christmas sentamentality in which the heathen feel very comfortable in celebrating. The greatest aspect of Christmas?
It helps the economy. (see the venue of the video) But as a tradeoff, many divorces begin with the debt incurred at this “wonderful time of the Risen Christ”.
Signed,
Scrooge with another worthless haughtyism
Though this was a beautiful rendition, Rick is right. This Mall court is amazingly like many churches today as well. We can be mezmorized, entertained, even join in with beautiful singing and entertainment without ever asking the hard questions or responding to the hard questions.
What I am trying to say is that this could have just as well have been been Mars Hill (Mi) or Saddleback as a mall; the atmosphere and the participants are similar.
I wonder if a street preacher would have stood up after the rendition in the mall and spoke about the incarnation, the light coming into the darkness (sin) and our need to repent and believe so we could be saved if the crowd would have stayed around.
“I wonder if a street preacher would have stood up after the rendition in the mall and spoke about the incarnation, the light coming into the darkness (sin) and our need to repent and believe so we could be saved if the crowd would have stayed around.”
He would have been roundly condemned by the crowd and by much of the visible church. I may disagree with some of your approach, PB, but preaching Jesus is far greater than singing a song to Christmas buyers, whcih if we are honest, showcased their singing talent more than the Lord Jesus.
I would only judge it that way if afterward they received congratulations by the crowd (like at church) pats on the back (like at church) a few atta boys (like at church) instead of giving glory to God and proclaiming our need to bow the knee to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. If this was not done, this was nothing more than a well produced ploy to bring glory to ?
” If this was not done”
If I was a betting man…
Seriously? Have you listened to the words of the Hallelujah chorus? So they went to place where they knew there would be a crowd, they sang scripture, and you condemn them? Seriously?
#7
You see, there isn’t really power in Scripture alone, it has to be preached.
I do not “condemn them”. I have a disagreement about the depth of the spiritual effect of such a spectacle. The 3 million + internet hits indicate a curiosity rather than a spiritual event.
I have sung Nadel’s Messiah several times, and I believe it is a wonderful piece of music. But it is not meant for evangelism, and certainly not for a video event that was probably meant to advertise Chorus Niagra.
(I will amit my view of Christmas adds to my view of the video.)
Scripture can be used to undermine Scripture.
Rick Frueh A.D. 2010
Preachers can and often do preach for their own glorification and to have material for their book about their life as a Martyr, persecuted for the cause.It also gives them ample material to complain about others.
Joe M A.D. 2010
as the “mob-members” joined in they stood. if i were there, and not part of the mob, i would not have stood.
what a crock of steaming false dichotmy… god gives someone a talent, they employ that talent, and people respond with appreciate!
that IS giving god the glory!
#11 – True indeed. Sadly.
“crock of steaming false dichotmy”
Great metaphor! I may steal it in the future.
i find the fact that any fault can be found in this to be truly amazing.
to assume the singers are doing for their own glory…
to use it as a step to mount a favorite hobby-horse…
to employ multiple false dichotomies…
truly i say, fom the overflow of the heart the finger do type!
let’s deconstruct this a bit and list the FAILS:
1) the heart of those singing can be determined by the reaction of those hearing. – FAIL
2) congratulations, given or received by people means glory not given to jesus – FAIL
3) lack of overt proclaiming the need to bow means glory not given – FAIL
4) lacking the ability to see people joyfully and unashamedly giving glory to god in even the most mundane setting - FAIL
5) assigning motives of others based on your own preferences and cultural attitudes - FAIL
6) finding fault with people reflecting the creativity of their creator by creating something beautiful themselves - FAIL
Rick said:
PB said:
My word, let’s just go ahead and take the freakin’ joy out of everything… Heaven forbid heathens be blessed or God be praised in a public place.
I guess Scripture is wrong… What then angels really proclaimed to the shepherds was “peace to the church, goodwill to some!”
“let’s just go ahead and take the freakin’ joy out of everything”
No, just the things that do not glorify God. But each of us has our own list of those things, I think.
BTW – One of the most beautiful reditions of the Halleluiah Chorus is performed by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.
Just as the devil quoted Scripture, I do not believe God is glorified in that, unless we accept that eventually God will be glorified and pleased with everything that happens. Until then, eat, drink, and be merry!
the mormon tabernacle choir has nothing to do with this video.
street preaching has nothing to do with this video.
assuming to judge he hearts and motives of those who presented and those who received has nothing to do with this video.
attacking churches you do not like because they are not like you has nothing to do with this video.
critiquing the return on effort of an evangelistic strategy of singing in public (particularly when we have no reason to assume evangelism was even the reason) has nothing to do with this video.
declaring this cannot glorify god has nothing to do with the video.
- has everything to do with the reaction of some to this video.
#21. BINGO – we have a winner!
#21 – And that is a big surprise!
I agree with Neil…I just thought it was pretty cool so i submitted it..
i would be interested in discussin the philosophy that receiving/giving congratulations, pats on the back, or a few atta boys cannot be, or is the opposite of – giving glory to God.
it is true that someone could be motivated by just this… but can these things not be a simple display of appreicate to the person for using their talents to praise the lord. and by extension then, give god glory for having created them thus?
I used to say “Praise the Lord” anytime anyone thanked me for using my gifts, whether teaching or serving, etc. And then my pastor finally said that people were thanking me, not to give glory to me, but because they were blessed by my unique offering. So I started saying thank you, and then adding “Praise the Lord” if I felt someone was giving me too much credit. But for those who know me and know that I long to bring glory to God in any way I can, I just say thank you.
Another thought occurred to me. If a little girl is wearing a pretty dress, and someone compliments her on her attire, her mother would instruct her (if her mother is trying to raise her to exercise common courtesy) to say “thank you.” Her vocalized gratitude to the compliment is not the same as her taking credit for making the dress herself. It is considered good etiquette to say “thank you” when someone compliments you.
For the record: I see nothing wrong with saying “thank you”. Micro-managing such things is ridiculous.
#25 AW Tozer calls it ‘glorifying the worm’
Tozer would walk out the service at RoLAC. I like much of Tozer, but his opinions are nothing to me.
#30 I only hope that Jesus is happy with our services, because the worship is for him, not for any man.
I pray that when people give a pat on the back or an atta boy that I say thanks and give glory to God who has made me and given me the ability to speak and write.
A- freakin’ -mazing! People sing the Hallelujah Chorus in a food court and some of you bash them for it…
Glad I have to live up to God’s standards and not yours, I would never measure up. Not sure Jesus would measure up…
Nobody is bashing anybody. I think they did a wonderful job. At the end of the day, I only wonder who got the glory.
I believe a committed 14 year old believer who does not have a trained singing voice and sings a Casting Crowns song in church is more pleasing to God than a mixed multitude pulling off a singing stunt.
Does it have to be Casting Crowns?
It’s sort of funny that people resort to using feudal language relating to kings and kingship when talking about worship and whatnot. Terms like “pleasing God” and giving Him honor all sort of have this undertone that if we don’t do those things, God will be ticked off at us, and there will be some sort of consequences.
When I hear a person singing a beautiful song, I believe that the Father is the one who created that beauty in the first place, therefore recognizing beauty wherever it happen is actually giving worship and honor to Father. I do believe that God does experience pleasure when His children worship Him, but it’s not pleasure in the sense of appeasement. It’s pleasure in the sense that a father loves his children.
So conversations on whether God gets more glory from this or that are really irrelevant. The arc of Scripture isn’t about humans reaching upward to God to give Him as most glory as possible. It’s about God in His great kindness and mercy sending His glory down to earth that we may experience it and live in it. That’s an act of beauty like this performed in public should be celebrated. It’s a reminded that the earth and everything in it are still the Lord’s.
Sometimes I wonder why God tolerates us.
so, contrary to your previous comments, it is acceptable for people to express their appreciation when others exercise their gifts/talents.
good to know.
what is it that makes you so negative? what about that video even suggests such pessimism? why would this even enter your mind? why automatically assume the worst? must EVERYTHING done (except by ingrid and ken) be assumed to be evil?
stunt? see comment 39 sans the ingrid/ken reference).
re 36: i agree phil. except they probably did it just so the masses would like THEM! :eyeroll
There was another group that did this at the grand lobby of Macy’s in Detroit. It was even more thrilling because of the setting. They held up a sign that said “Random Act of Culture”, so they were not necessarily there for the “glory of God”. And yet for any saved it was an aroma of life. I was moved. God’s word does not return void. I agree. Why be so negative? It (like this one) was a really cool event.
Oops. It was at Philadelphia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp_RHnQ-jgU