“I sense that once again, it will take persecution to scatter the saints for the spread of the true gospel.”–Charles Newbold, The Crucified Ones, 17 (his emphasis)
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“I sense that once again, it will take persecution to scatter the saints for the spread of the true gospel.”–Charles Newbold, The Crucified Ones, 17 (his emphasis)
17 Comments(+Add)
AMEN!!
AMEN!!
AMEN
Can I say it again?
AMEN!
i wonder what he means.
He means exactly what John is cheering.
I’m not saying I agree with the quote. Nor do I think I agree with what he defines as the ‘true’ gospel.
Nor do I think John is correct to be cheering and hoping for persecution.
Persecution will reveal the true church. Because the world loves most of today’s preachers, much of the western institutional church will never experience this. If you do not preach the real complete Gospel, you will never be persecuted.
So does that mean that Catholics that are persecuted in countries like Iraq are preaching the true Gospel?
#5 – No. But persecution comes in many forms, including the allurement of the culture. The greatest persecution would be a complete economic collapse.
Perhaps then we could all set our hearts on Him alone. I don’t relish it but I need it.
All I’m saying is that if PB makes the statement that if people don’t preach a complete Gospel, you’ll never be persecuted, then it follows that the Christians who are being persecuted at the present time are the ones preaching a complete Gospel – at least according to his logic.
I find the whole thing ridiculous. Historically, yes, the church has managed to grow when it was persecuted, but whether or not that church is “more true” than in other times in history is a matter of debate.
The thing that is ironic in this thing to me is that PB constantly fights against the notion that salvation is a corporate thing, but yet, he’s perfectly happy to throw huge swaths of the church under the bus based on the actions of few people he deems heretical. Talk about having you cake and eating it too…
persecution is not an acid test for fidelity to the gospel. millions of believers live (and some even preach) their true gospel faith daily without any persecution. persecution may have a cleansing process, but this is not guaranteed.
furthermore, persecution in acts caused the spread of the gospel, not the purification of the church.
personally i know far too many people who are involved in spreading the gospel to “amen” such a statement.
“persecution is not an acid test for fidelity to the gospel.”
True. However God used persecution to bring revival and purification to His backslidden people. Perhaps we need that as well.
(Note – God sometimes used the heathen to persecute His own people, and then punished those same heathen for doing that!)
what examples are you thinking of?
re 10: – i was disagreeing with the op in the sense that it implies the gospel is not being spread – that we need persecution for that to happen.
and i was disagreeing with pboy’s assertion that there is a correlation between preaching the “true” gospel and persecution.
There are quite a few. Read Habakkuk chapter 1 and see God raise up the Chaldeans (Babylonians) to punish the Jews.
Rick,
That may well be true of OT Israel. I wonder if you can make that case broadly for the Christian church. It seems to me that Jesus himself and the Holy Spirit are conviction enough to correct and rebuke the church, not to mention Paul’s assertion that this is also the work of the Word of God (”correct, rebuke…etc.”).
I’m not saying you are necessarily wrong, but I am wonder about the broad applicability of your assertion. Does God need the church to be persecuted in order for the church to do it’s work? Or does persecution happen to the church because the church does it’s work?
(I’m inclined towards the latter.) A church doing nothing is not a church that attracts the attention of those who would persecute her. Hence the fallibility of the OP and John’s ‘amens’.
jerry
Perhaps “correction” is a better description. But persecution has indeed purified and grown the church in many places over the years. So maybe God uses persecution rather than sending it as He did in the OT.
no doubt the ot is full of examples – god warned them what would happen if they… – and he followed through.
i echo phil’s question as to this being true of the church as well.
i suspect it is true that persecution has purified the church over the ages… but i do not agree with pboy nor newbold.
“i echo phil’s question as to this being true of the church as well.”
I also question if Hism metyhodologies are the same. But we know He uses all things.