Comments on: The White Rose Anniversary

By: Rick Frueh

Rick Frueh — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:53:24 +0000

#25 – Jesus said His cup would be accompanied by His name. There is no one that can do “good” in the abstract without Christ. “Good” goes far deeper than just an outward act.

By: Neil

Neil — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:13:25 +0000

Certainly just because people are fallen doesn’t mean they are as evil as they could potentially be.

or even further, it does not mean they cannot do good.

By: Phil Miller

Phil Miller — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:59:52 +0000

I really have never heard of Hitler helping old ladies across the street…

As far as the passage in John 15, Jesus is talking to the disciples about bearing fruit. The statement is that if they aren’t attached to the vine, the branches can’t bear fruit. So I guess the only inference I would take from that passage is that good works done apart from a relationship with Christ aren’t considered fruit, which makes sense.

Obviously there are degrees of good and evil that people can do apart from a relationship with God. For example, if a leader of a country is less oppressive towards the people of that country, I would say that is a net good. Certainly just because people are fallen doesn’t mean they are as evil as they could potentially be.

By: Neil

Neil — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:53:05 +0000

i don’t see why a cup of cold water given by a pagan is any less good than one given by a christian.

By: Rick Frueh

Rick Frueh — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:30:56 +0000

“I am the vine and you are the branches. Without Me you can do nothing.”

By: Rick Frueh

Rick Frueh — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:30:00 +0000

This is just philosophical, but I believe good works done by an unbeliever are tainted. When Hitler helps an old lady across the street while Jews burn in the ovens his “good works” are nothing more than fallen facimiles.

By: Phil Miller

Phil Miller — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 18:05:46 +0000

The only reason anything good exists is because God proclaimed creation as good when He created it. Yes, the cosmos is fallen, and the fall affects everything, but even fallen people are capable of doing good every now and then because they were created in His image. I tend to think that God actually rejoices a bit when good is done by fallen people.

By: Neil

Neil — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:55:54 +0000

Is good good regardless of who does it? Is good good regardless of whose name it is done in?

i would say – yes, absolutely. if it is good to feed the poor, advocate for the oppressed, clothe the naked… it is good regardless of whether it is done by a christian or a pagan… whether in the name of christ or not. so much the better if it is, but that does not make/determine something as good.

What meaning is there to good done simply for the sake of doing good?

this is a little more difficult. a christian doing good “just” for the sake of doing good – is still doing good. and that has meaning in and of itself. i would say they could do even better, if they also overtly did good in the name of jesus.

but even a pagan, who does good just for the sake of good – still does good. and therein we find the meaning.

By: Neil

Neil — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:51:05 +0000

re #18 – absolutely agree…

By: Jerry

Jerry — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:46:07 +0000

Right. I’m not trying to be contrary. And I get there may be times when ‘we’ can’t use his name.

This goes back to a thought I had a long time ago that was never resolved that goes something like this: What about all the good that unsaved people do quite apart, and sometimes in direct contradiction to, the name of Jesus?

Is good good regardless of who does it? Is good good regardless of whose name it is done in? What meaning is there to good done simply for the sake of doing good?

Seriously.