Archive for the 'Emergent Church' Category

Source: Verum Serum

Comments: John responds to an article written by Ken about Rob Bell. Ken’s criticisms of Bell were based on an excerpt from the three-year-old interview, which was then twisted and distorted by Silva. Additionally, Ken quoted a person who attended Rob Bell’s “Everything is Spiritual” tour, mischaracterizing his comments. John contacted this person, who wrote a correction to Ken’s comments. Since this time, Ken has been much more reliant on quoting dead theologians rather than live folks who might decide to correct him.
Memorable Quotes:

After reading Ken’s revised attack on Rob Bell, I contacted the individual he quoted, Patrick Hanley. Patrick is a youth and college pastor who was not aware how his words were being used. I encouraged him to clarify his comments and he has done so below. Here is the key bit:

This Ken guy, whom I don’t find very fond, has taken my words and made them say something I did not intend. I like a lot of what Bell says. I saw him speak last week in Indy and it was pretty good. My only wish is that he would be more cross-centered. I would not call him a heretic or a wolf seeking to devour.

We then had a whole discussion about the proper interpretation of Acts 17, the highlight of which (for me, anyway) was when a commenter named LadyDoc argued that Paul’s preaching model was a failure:

Oh, his sermon didn’t go over too well, by the way. Only a few people really took to it; the rest mocked him. I guess that model doesn’t work very well for Mr. Bell’s purposes…you know, trying to be “culturally relevant.”

Sort of sounds like she got halfway through that sentence and realized she couldn’t say what she started out to say. Notice she starts talking about Paul (”his sermon” is the one in Acts 17) as being a failure, then shifts midway to a criticism of Rob Bell. Well, I guess she’s on record as disagreeing with Paul’s methods of evangelism. Good luck with that.

I had no intention of recapitulating any of this discussion here. In fact, I thought it was over, given that Ken closed the comments on his post at Slice. Then, yesterday, Ken revised and expanded his criticism of Bell (now with new accusations!) and created a new post at Slice highlighting it. Strangely, he left the bit about Bell blaming God for Yoga basically untouched. Since he recycled the same argument, I left a comment last night recycling the same reasons why he’s mistaken. I’m sad to say my comment seems to have vanished into the Slice ether. Apparently, it’s one thing for Ken to recycle the same bad argument, but it’s something else for me to recycle the response.

To say that heathen “seek God” is to undermine the Gospel and trivialize God’s role in salvation!

So I guess when Rob Bell said:

God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

He was undermining the Gospel and trivializig God’s role in salvation?

Oops, that wasn’t Rob that was Paul, Acts 17:27. Your argument needs some work.

Well, no one has compared him to a child molester yet. I guess Rob Bell isn’t in Rick Warren’s league.

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Source: Bob Blog
Comments: Wherein Bob posts a video clip from ‘King of the Hill’, Ingrid posts it on Slice, and the sharks converge on Slice to devour it. Rinse – Lather – Repeat.
Memorable Quotes:

Slice is a group of heresy hunters who think I, and quite possibly you, are giong to hell for reading and liking a Brian McLaren book or two, or approving in some vague way of books like Richard Foster’s Celebration of Discipline.

Kind of mean spirited, really… And if that sounds mean, spend some time reading through the comment threads over there and see what you think

[comment by Iggy] Personally I have come to the point that many of those like Ingrid and the rest, do not desire anything but to make a name for themselves… no matter how they get their kudos. they are out to say they are ‘right’ and we are wrong….. But the true irony of that is they are then only proclaiming their own “righteousness” with out realizing they are lifting themselves up as the sole proprietors of truth… and miss that Truth is a Person… not a thing… or philosophy, or reasoning, or any other man made idea or principle. They miss that we do not live by doctrine… but in contrast we live by the Life of Christ. I think what is happening is people are looking for something real… and the only True Real is Jesus. Many have just not gotten that far on their journey.

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Source: Tall Skinny Kiwi

Comments: Slice mocks an EC Communion service documented by Andrew, who then goes back to Slice for some civilized conversation on the topic.
Memorable Quotes:

so let me get this straight. after examining the last supper of Jesus and the historical accounts of the early church, you have come up with a communion service that:
- excludes children, swaps a full meal for a sample, avoids any technology, forbids joy or laughter, happens in a hall with men on a stage, dispenses with conversation, has no wine whatsoever . . and you think that is more biblical? more godly?

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Source: Bob Blog
Comments: Bob notes that Ken might not appreciate what would happen if he looked into a mirror…
Memorable Quotes:

Got a letter from the Rev Ken Silva from Slice of Laodicea. He feels as though I misunderstand and perhaps mischaracterize him. I said I was sorry for his hurt feelings, but that perhaps now he knew how men like Brian McLaren and Richard Foster feel when reading Silva’s diatribes.

[starla commenting] Ken does recall that he called me a heretic after one post, right?

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Source: Bob Blog

Comments: Bob congratulates Ross Daws (of Less Travelled) for a well-thought exchange at Slice, but in doing so, sends the Slice censors into overdrive.  After all, you can’t run a heretic-hunter site if the ‘heretics’ actually make sense.
Memorable Quotes:

speaking of critics… Has anyone noticed the absolutely stellar job Ross Daws is doing over at Slice of Laodicea?
… amazing, yoeman’s work. He is being compassionately engaging, not being drawn in by the ridiculous ad hominems (my downfall… I can’t resist responding), and is teaching… one can actually see some light bulbs come on as you read through the thread. It’s brilliant.

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Source: Bob Blog

Comments: Bob says a prayer for Ken, Ingrid and company, after a slanderous categorization of the church movement to which he belongs.
Memorable Quotes:

Ahh… see now… now we’re actually “satanic.”

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Source: Cerulean Sanctum
Comments: Dan reminds Christian bloggers how perceived heresy should be approached, and doles out some barbs for those who might not be listening all too well…
Memorable Quotes:

So here’s what I’m saying in a nutshell:

  • If you insist that people must be exactly {miscellaneous Christian necessity}, but you are doing nothing concrete to help them achieve {miscellaneous Christian necessity}, then SHUT UP.
  • If you believe that {miscellaneous Christian ministry/teacher/author/pastor} is doctrinally wrong in some area, take a moment to ask if what he/she/it is saying in another area is something you need to hear before you call him/her/it heretical, or else SHUT UP.

I’m not willing to do the millstone thing. Have I done it in the past? Even on this blog? Probably. But folks, if we are truly going to be the Church, then we have got to start burying the hatchet in something besides each other, especially if we can only point out problems, but have no solutions. That kind of hypocrisy gets us nowhere.

Honestly, has anyone in the Evangelical, Reformed, Mainline, or Whatever Church who has ripped the Emerging Church lately taken one second to say, “You know, they do that a lot better than we do. Perhaps we need to improve in that area,” or is it just one tirade after another, with closed ears and a heart unwilling to take the correction God may be doling out through the equivalent of Balaam’s ass?

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