Source: Verum Serum

Comments: John dissects the Slice view on the only way one can ‘do church’, eschewing laughter, music written while anyone currently living was around, and personal stories by pastors.  He uses two articles by Ingrid contrasting a ‘God-centered’ and a ‘man-centered’ (in her view) church.
Memorable Quotes:

I’ve written about that divide before using some definitions of those terms I found on another site. As I said then, the terms themselves are loaded. In fact, it seems to me that they are little more than code words for a type of church or a particular way of doing church that the Slice authors don’t like. This includes churches that use rock music or praise hymns, pastors who tell jokes, etc.

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She mentions “hand shaking, back slapping, and occasional loud shrieks of laughter” as if these are out of place at church. Later, she mentions a series of jokes by the pastor. She obviously feels these are out of place as well. Again, I’m fine with her holding that opinion. My problem is when she crosses the line and suggests that God holds it too.

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To invalidate personal anectdotes as teaching tools is to invalidate most of the Bible itself.

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Source: Verum Serum

Comments: John’s first article on Slice, spurred on by Ingrid’s need to identify the Beast of Revelation, whether it be the Catholic church, the Evangelical church, or the Purpose Driven Church…
Memorable Quotes:

Last week, Slice of Laodicea wrote a post comparing the Catholic church to the “beast” of revelation. Andy Jackson of SmartChristian sent out an e-mail notifying a few bloggers about this and asking them to comment. Tim Challies wrote a post which essentially argued there may be something to this claim. In response, I and several others including Joe Carter at Evangelical Outpost responded that this was ridiculous.

Slice of Laodicea followed up their Catholic Beast post with one stating that the beast could just as likely be the evangelical church. Then Ingrid (the main writer at Slice of L) went a step further and actually put out a call for stories bashing Rick Warren and his ministry. Staring today, we have the fruit of that effort. Ingrid is posting the responses she’s received.

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Purpose Driven churches are like Stalinist Russia? Good lord, woman. Stalinist Russia was officially atheist. To be caught reading the bible meant a trip to the gulag. Is this really an appropriate comparison for Rick Warren’s minsitry?

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I hate to burst her bubble, but there is no Chrstianity apart from the local body of believers, the ekklesia. There are no spiritual “lone rangers.” Ingrid presumably has enough theological education to know this (Heb. 10:25), but is happy to overlook it in order to further her attack on Rick Warren. Something is very wrong here.

I wish the author of the letter (and Ingrid) could mature to the point where differences over music style are not the end of fellowship. Just because they can’t worship God to praise choruses, doesn’t mean no one else can.

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Source: Lone Prairie Art Works

Comments: Julie gets a bit exasperated with the guilt-by-association and its forms in the Christian blogosphere (and the microcosm that is SoL).  She also has a thing for asterices and post-scripts that I love…
Memorable Quotes:

After all my reading and listening and studying, I believe there is no more bitter or pointless argument to be in than one made up of a bunch of Christians trying to prove or disprove the specifics, and no more embarrassing one to be caught in, either.

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Teacher A discredits B, while C praises A. D praises C and B but discredits A. Then A slips up and endorses the book of E when E has been known to endorse the book of F who had endorsed the book of B. Real life example: I like Francis Schaeffer. Os Guiness is connected to his L’Abri. I like Os Guiness (his book Prophetic Untimeliness will knock you down, it’s that good). Os Guiness is connected to The Trinity Forum. This leads to a connection to Dallas Willard and boom! Red flag. The whole contemplative prayer thing. If Willard endorses a Guiness book, does this mean I no longer should partake of Guiness, and consequently anyone connected? But wait! Bob DeWaay is connected to the same publisher as Ray Yungen who is against contemplative prayer but DeWaay has spoken at the Rochester branch of L’Abri. Crisis! What to do?!

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Want a taste of this? Just go here, take some notes, then start looking through your own books, think about your own beliefs and whatever else has positively influenced you in your Christian walk, and let your head implode. And just in case you’re up for it, go be poked fun at by other Christians, because that’s cool, too (HT: TRW). Once you’ve made up your categories – something I am unable to do because of the GLARING IMPOSSIBILITY OF THIS, go set up your own website and proclaim to the world you’ve figured it out while modestly saying you haven’t, like here or here. You can even publish your own books. Claim yourself to be a watchtower being sure to quote from Ezekiel, or claim to be part of the remnant, although there’s enough people claiming to be the remnant out there that I think we can sew together a pretty big sheet of cloth.

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And then, for one last bit of fun, get involved in the search for the perfect and appropriate worship music. I read one guy on Slice* saying how holy and much better his Sunday went with its Lutheran liturgy as opposed to the vileness of modern worship or whatever, while I’ve know people who have all but slipped into a coma during just such a time. On the other hand, this post is a perfect example of the excruciating 3-4-5’s (three words, four chords, five hours) that drive me nuts; it talks about a song called Breathe**. For those white Germanic folk up here that have never been to another country or culture where Lutheran liturgy just doesn’t cut it, you might consider that making a joyful noise to the Lord varies across cultures and denominations. As with everything, we all gather at the fine line where something is crossed and it isn’t about true worship, and we point fingers at each other to the sound of the drums, organ, piano, call and response, Gregorian chant, or nothing (Church of God – they don’t have instruments, right?) while missing the bigger picture.

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So no, I don’t want to argue your five points, argue about Finney or argue Arminianism or Pelagianism or cessationism or an -ism. I don’t want to raise a virtual blog altar to MacArthur*** and create a perpetual link to the great preacher Spurgeon. I don’t want to nod my head with the rest of the ducks who are looking at the geese, both waterfowl, agreeing that because the geese like the Alpha Course or wear pants or are Pentecostal, they’re definitely going to hell.

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*If you’re not a five-pointer or sour-faced, Slice might be rough going. I no longer leave comments because the whole bunch jump on the ugly duckling, and sign off with “In Christ.” Can’t do much with that. I once left a blunt rebuttal and signed it “In Christ, Too” but it was one of many comments that didn’t make it, though it may have been my Firefox acting up again and losing my comment. It’s just as well.

**Breathe is a song that our Pastor doesn’t like so much because in his previous church some girl sang that chorus for about three weeks as a “special number.” Simply awful, I imagine. There should be Biblical discipline involved here i.e. taking the mic away. Another song with little meaning is that Draw Me Close one. Huh?

***I like MacArthur, who, by the way, supported Dr. Dobson and which, by the way, throws up red flags for some who would normally support MacArthur and that is my point here: When you follow men (humans, for my feminism challenged readers) you will most likely find confusion. Why, on Slice they mock the Left Behind series which has Kirk Cameron as the actor in the films who is also now in the Worldview Weekend rotation of speakers and shares an online column presence with other Christian authors including the “owner” of Slice, Ingrid.

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Source: Lone Prairie Art Works

Comments: Julie is a bit put off by an article on Slice (which refers to the CCM girl-group ZoeGirl as “Hussies on Parade”).  One of the commenters goes on to explain that women, if they listen to the Holy Spirit, will know that they should wear skirts and not pants.  Julie disagrees with the poster (and Ingrid), and retroactively has her posts removed.
Memorable Quotes:

Check out this post, written by one of the bloggers on that site whose perspective I consistently enjoy and appreciate if not always agree with. Then check out the comments section where the real fun begins. My first comment was published, though I don’t know if my second one will be. However, I’ve preserved it for this blog. Here’s the running debate I’m having with Christine Narloch, who seems like a lovely woman. I’m not going to go into super deep and serious discussion because, like I said, I’m working on another blog post for the future that will cover my thoughts on this and more, anyway.

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Did Jesus die on the cross so I could feel guilt about not wearing a skirt? It’s bad enough trying to find decent, modest clothing the past few years with the fashions that are in, but now I get reprimanded for having a preference for bifurcated clothing. Frankly, I find pants more modest than a skirt. There’s no worry about light showing through, mirrors on some pervert’s shoe, or a Marilyn Monroe breeze coming along and making me have a red-faced day. Pants stay put, cover everything, and don’t have to be tight. Functional, and less tripping. How is it that I, who am often disgusted by the clothes girls wear now and have often commented on the lack of modesty, am now on the wrong end of the stick for wearing pants?

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I just find it interesting that I even have to have this discussion. Skirts vs. pants. Despite Christine being sure that I am ignoring the conviction of the Holy Spirit because she experienced it, I assure her and you I AM NOT. It’s a far leap to assume that since I haven’t had the same conviction as Christine that I am prone to picking and choosing what to believe. God points out different things in each life that He wants us to deal with.

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Tomorrow is church. I will wear jeans. They will be clean and neat and not tight. I will wear a nice sweater and other layers and some women’s shoes and will be up front, playing the piano, as always. I hope God takes notice of my fashion sense? No, I hope He takes notice of my heart and intent, and whether I’ve been faithful in word and deed and in Bible study. I didn’t know there was a dress code to get into heaven. Craziness is right. It’s the angels on the head of the pin all over again.

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I will never be able to jump through all the hoops that man puts in front of me in order to be proper; luckily, that isn’t my goal. Skirts don’t make me holy. They’re merely missing a seam.

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Source: Musings from Two-Sheds Gomer

Comments: This is part of Brendt’s “Lies that Will Kill You” series.  While it does not appear to be pointed specifically at Slice, the similarities to the watchblogosphere it defines are rather evident.
Memorable Quotes:

If I may paraphrase Jesus’ parable of the Pharisee and the publican (tax collector):

The legalist stood and prayed thus with himself, “God, I thank Thee that I am not like other men — extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this sinner. My hair doesn’t toucheth my collar; I listen only to music that is at least 300, nay 400, years old; my wife hath never worn pantaloons.”

This, to certain people, is the definition of true spirituality. According to this belief, if one takes care of the externals, everything is fine.

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Source: Musings from Two-Sheds Gomer

Comments: Brendt attended an incredibly worshipful night with Michael W. Smith, Third Day and others.   The sin?  It was sponsored by Chevy.  Therefore, according to I Hezekiah (or at least Steve Camp), worship could not have happened there.  Brendt takes issue with this assessment.
Memorable Quotes:

Not content to simply allow something like this to happen, there were voices of dissent because (in an uncommon move) the tour was sponsored by Chevrolet. No voice was louder than that of Steve Camp. In his analysis of the situation, Camp begins by stating that “I want to affirm my love and prayers for Michael W. Smith, Third Day, and Max Lucado”, then proceeds to cruficy them. (See also, “with friends like these…”) This tactic does not seem to be uncommon for Camp, who also will make self-effacing remarks about his past, and then rip someone else’s present. I guess that Camp considers himself to have arrived and that Galatians 6:1 is not applicable.

… if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness …

This, of course, assumes that Camp is one of the “you who are spiritual”. But I digress.

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Camp’s polemic is filled with strawmen, largely based (apparently) on some divine knowledge of others’ attitudes, thoughts, and feelings. Where non-existent (and therefore, very easily refuted) issues are not employed, mischaracterizations of situations and misinterpretations (or, at least, misapplication) of Scripture is used. One example would be the statement:

The fact that this is an “evening of worship and evangelism” — their language, not mine -means that we have now actually digressed to charging people money to worship the Lord.

Uh, no, Steve. “We” are charging people money to be a part of a particular event during which there is the hope and prayer that worship will take place. Just like I was charged money for your concerts back in the 80s. Even if this is dismissed as Camp’s past, he is alleging that I was incapable of achieving genuine worship at his concerts. I’m not sure who this insults the most — me, Camp, or God. And lest we classify this as solely the past, please be aware that Camp participated in a cruise earlier this year, for which people were charged a lot more than my ticket to that concert cost. By Camp’s argument, no worship must have occured on that ship either.

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Camp quotes these verses…

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

John 15:18-19
18 If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

…and then uses them to claim that any level of acceptability in the world means that the Christian is doing something wrong. The converse to this argument is that disfavor by the world indicates that you’re doing something right. But it could just mean that you’re a booger-head

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But, let’s not rely on my interpretation. I’ll close with one more Scripture.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

In short, you can’t get in God’s way, even if you try.

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