Archive for the 'PD/SS' Category

Mike Corley recently took on the SBC’s initiative to be better stewards of our environment.  Let me first say that I have a growing respect for Mike and his willingness to go where other ODMs are not.  However, this article and radio broadcast left me scratching my head with confusion.

On air, he reads the initiative and agrees with everything, including the scripture used to back up the movement.  There was not one thing that he said was unbiblical or even off base theologically. In fact, the only negative thing he could say about it was that they referred to those who follow Christ as “Christ followers.”  So all in all, you would think that there was little cause for concern.   But, he continues by saying that he has “great concerns as to why this environmental move has taken place in the SBC.”

He makes a strange connection between this initiative and what he calls “hyper-arminianism.”  He defines this as “the implied or distinct teaching and mindset that God cannot save someone without that person’s agreement or allowance. “  Mike never makes the argument for the connection between this move to go green and this theology, so I am not too sure how one’s view of election would affect a biblical argument for caring for the earth.

He then takes the opportunity to rag on Rick Warren and LifeWay, the SBC publishing company –once again, giving no connection to the green initiative.  It seems that his basic premise is that are were bigger issues for the SBC to handle.  But it looks like he just took advantage of the situation to promote his opinions on the denomination, Rick Warren and what he calls the “money-driven practices of LifeWay”

He closes his article with a very strange comment

“But why not spend time and money on clearly defining the Gospel and preaching that Gospel, rather than doing the popular “green thing”.  It may make good conversation over a pumpkin spice latte, but it’s not the Gospel.”

First off, the SBC is known for its evangelistic focus.  While I am sure that Corley would say that Southern Baptists mostly produce false converts, not too many denominations can touch them in the amount of money and energies spent on reaching the world for Christ.  Therefore, the amount of time and money spent on drafting up this initiative is a drop in the bucket compared to that given to preaching the gospel.  If they weren’t doing the latter, the argument might hold up.

Second, there are lots of issues that are “not the gospel’:  Church discipline, modesty, homosexuality, abortion, divorce, idol worship, and spiritual disciplines to name a few.  Does that mean these are reduced to simply good Starbucks conversation topics too?  No.  Being good stewards of the world that God has given us is no different.       

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Found this on Mark Driscoll’s blog, thought it was interesting:

I got a call from Pastor Rick Warren last week. He called simply to see if there was anything he could do to help. His kindness was humbling and helpful. I asked him how he handled his critics and he had a great insight that in our day criticism has changed. He explained that there was a day when a critic would have to sit down and write a letter and then mail it into a newspaper. With limited space, the paper would then be able to only print a fraction of the letters they received. The printed letters were often not read and quickly became dated. However, Warren said, in our day criticism is marked by the following four factors:

1. Instant
2. Constant
3. Global
4. Permanent

Warren then went on to explain that, as Jesus experienced, the strongest criticism for any Christian leader comes from rigid religious people. When I asked him what someone should do when facing criticism, he gave the following insightful points:

1. Turn your critics into coaches by hearing what they are saying and humbly considering if there is any truth in their criticisms to learn from.
2. Never engage the critics on their terms because it only escalates the conflict and is not productive.
3. Be very careful with firing off emails or leaving voicemails and responding out of anger in a way that you will later regret.
4. Shout louder than your critics to define yourself and do not allow them to define you.

I want to publicly thank Warren for giving me some good advice and taking time out of his busy schedule to speak into my life and ministry. I also pass his wisdom along to other Christian leaders

thanks ianmcn for the submission. If you find a story on the inter-web that you think is worth publishing here, make sure to make note of it on our “submissions” page.

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This quote was posted at CRN from Kay Warren

By her own admission, Kay Warren says, five years ago she didn’t know anything about AIDS. Then she saw a magazine article about how the disease had left 12 million orphans in Africa.

‘I didn’t care about AIDS in Africa. I thought it was a gay man’s disease, so in the theology I had at the time, I didn’t have to care. I didn’t know anyone who had AIDS. I had a heart that was very hard, apathetic and very wrong,’ said Warren

CRN responds with this one line

Well, she must have learned that rotten and unscriptural “theology” from her her husband because they sure didn’t get it from the BIble.

Very revealing of their theology at CRN. It is considered “rotten and unscriptural” to actually care about those who have AIDS. I mean, isn’t that all Kay mentions here? Before she used to think AIDS was a “gay man’s disease” and so she didn’t have to care about these people. But, now that she actually cares for the broken, the widowed, the sick, the hungry and the naked, her theology is rotten. These people have obviously become more enamored with their fights against Warren than understanding biblical truths. Simply amazing.

**UPDATE**

Upon re-reading the article, I realized that I probably did get the message mixed up.  I apologize for any harm done.  I am still confused though.  Rick Warren has not changed his theology in the last 5 years.  Why would he then be responsible for his wife’s theology 5 years ago, but not be now?  You can’t say he was responsible for the bad, but is not now responsible for the good.

So, I guess the editor is implying that Rick Warren’s theology has now changed for the better?  I’ll take that.

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O NO3ZDid you know? The PD Church, the ECM, Oprah and the New Agers are in cahoots to create a one-world religion!!! O N03Z!

Seriously.

I heard it from Ingrid Schleuter and Brannon Howse on the interwebs, so it must be true! Right?

Ingrid recently did an interview of Brannon Howse’s radio show, where she tied together wacky power-of-positive-thinking, pop-psychology movies The Moses Code, new-agey The Shift, TM guru Eckhart Tolle, Oprah Winfrey, and other New Age ‘prophets’ with individual Christians, like Brian McLaren (who has a book called .. wait for it … “Everything Must Change”) and Rob Bell, and churches from Willow Creek to all of the “Emerging Church” (despite the fact that the ECM isn’t a monolithic entity) – which is part of the (cue the spooky music) “The Great Emergence”. “Contemplative Spirituality” is bringing demons into the Church! We MUST panic!

Neale Donald Walsch (”Conversations With God”) is one of the “high-level shills for The Antichrist”! Did you know that Walsch has a 5-point PEACE plan? Guess who else has a 5-point PEACE plan and a ’social gospel’? And Dennis Kucinich wants a cabinet-level “Department of Peace”. And guess who could institute it? Barak Obama, who many are hailing as a “new messiah”. You hear it first from Ingrid. We’d best all panic (or not panic, if you believe in a pre-trib rapture). And guess what – “you heard it first here”, says Ingrid – Oprah will be appointed to head the Department of PEACE.

With the Moses Code movie, people across the world are being asked to unite in a “global consciousness prayer” on April 5th for peace in the Middle East. These are New Age heathens, so what do they care about peace in the Middle East, unless it’s the beginning of a religious movement of such a scope as to send Tim LaHaye into fits of ecstasy. Peace in the Middle East? Joel Rosenberg, in his book, Epicenter has predicted that this will bring about Armageddon!

“This is no joke”, Ingrid jokes (without knowing it), explaining how you can go to a website where people teach about bending spoons with their mind. This is all the emergence of diaprax – the retraining of our children via their youth pastors, to do Christian yoga (”there’s nothing Christian about it”, says Howse), use contemplative prayer, walk labyrinths, and all of these emerging occultic practices. This will become the one-world religion of the last days, and Igrid and Brannon have cracked the code! Such great research!

Rob Bell wrote Velvet Elvis, in which he footnotes a book by Ken Wilbur! He must endorse EVERTHING Ken Wilbur believes! Heretic! This will lead to shambala, contemplative prayer, yoga, cats sleeping with dogs, mass hysteria! According to Ingrid, Bell, McLaren, Dan Kimball (Mr. Labyrinth) and the ECM are going to be the “cheerleaders” for the anti-christ. Bell even quotes Nelson Mandela (a communist!) – Marianne Williamson, in reality (a new ager) – (who cares that the quote is taken completely out of context and Bell is slandered in the process). In quoting Williamson, who is promoted by Oprah, Bell is supporting her channelling of demons, and ultimately bringing the antichrist here!

O NO3Z!

What utter hysterical foolishness tied together with lies and innuendo.

When viewing these things, the question becomes – is the right response to panic or to see that there is an opportunity to spread the Gospel in a world where people are seeing the need for a change in the way they live and operate? In the world of the chicken-little ODM’s, the response is apparently to bunker in and prepare for battle. Third-world microfinance, relief for those afflicted with AIDS, and any other causes/methods taken up by the ’secular’ world become immediately taboo, in a web of guilt-by-association.

Perhaps a separate way to look at these events is in the same lens viewed by 12 young men set loose by their Rabbi almost 2000 years ago. They went out into a Greek/Roman world in which many gods claimed virgin births and resurrections. These gods provided free medical care, food, water, clothing and community for people in that world through their temples. These young men, along with the Apostle Paul responded to the world, not through denunciation, fear-mongering and hysteria – but rather by preaching the truth of Christ, living in the Way of Christ, and allowing the Holy Spirit to convict the world of the truth.

Could the world end today? Sure. Could it end tomorrow? Yup. What might Jesus say in response to this?

“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?

“Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith! And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.

“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

“Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

Playing “let’s panic”, pin-the-tail-on-the-antichrist, slandering Christians, and trying to read the newspaper in one hand with the Bible in the other is simply a recipe for failure in the mission of the kingdom.

 
icon for podpress  The Sky Is Falling: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download
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I recently stumbled upon a nice trove of information from journalist Richard Abanes, another Christian brother who has found himself both in the sights of and a debunker of the “discernment” within the ODM community.

Richard has a number of good articles, including a long series of articles debunking the bile spewed by the anti-Rick-Warren crowd – including authors at SoL, Lighthouse Trails “Research”, and CR?N and other places.  These include a series called Lighthouse Trails: Walking in Darkness (Part 1, 2, 3 and 4) which is quite illuminating on how these charnel houses operate.  He also deconstructs Johnnie Mac’s criticisms of Warren (John MacArthur: No Grace fo Some), along with Gary Gilley, Roger Oakland and some of the other favorite “quotables” from the ODM crowd.

While I don’t necessarily agree with Abanes on everything, he offers well-thought commentary and much more ‘discernment’ in one article than most ODM’s do in a month, including his well-written books and essays on Mormonism…

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The latest article at CRN is entitled Rick Warren tells Jewish leader “There are More Than Enough Christian Souls…” Sounds absolutely scandalous, doesn’t it? I mean, this obviously shows that Warren doesn’t want any more people to come to Christ, and is rooting for modern Judaism, right?
Or, we could simply look at it in context. With creative editing, you can make a story look so juicy. Let’s look at the quotes unedited.
CRN wrote

Warren managed to speak for the entire evening without once mentioning Jesus — a testament to his savvy message-tailoring…

The full quote

The other secret to his success is his passion for God and Jesus. Warren managed to speak for the entire evening without once mentioning Jesus — a testament to his savvy message-tailoring. But make no mistake, the driving purpose of an evangelical church is to evangelize, and it is Warren’s devotion to spreading the words of the Christian Bible that drive his ministry.

CRN wrote in the title

There are More Than Enough Christian Souls

leaving out the ending…

There are more than enough Christian souls to deal with for starters

obviously a joke, responding to why he was not trying to convert all the Jews he was working with. And finally, CRN wrote

The success of Warren’s second book, “The Purpose-Driven Life” (Zondervan, 2002), demonstrates his ability to turn a particular gospel into a universal one

However, we already saw from the first quote that the author clearly saw Warren’s agenda of “spreading the words of the Christian Bible” out of “his passion for God and Jesus”

On top of all this… the article is dated June 23, 2006. If you have to go back two years to dig up some dirt, you may be a bit to zealous for your cause.

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I have to run this morning, but was amazed at the ignorance and extremely tainted bias that this article showed.  For the last time Ingrid, RICK WARREN IS NOT ADVOCATING RELIGIOUS PLURALISM!  He is simply stating where our society is headed, and painting a picture of the culture that is emerging in America!  Second, none of the things that describe pluralism in this article are bad things.

  1. engaging with those who are of different faith
  2. seeking to understand where non-believers are coming from in open and honest dialoge
  3. it’s not relativism (mind you, Harvard used that term), but understanding out diversity
  4. Dialogging about similarities and differences

Now, in third grade I took a strenuous course in reading comprehension.  And, no where can you conclude from this description of “pluralism” that

“If Christians insist on their exclusive views of salvation through Christ alone and refuse to participate in ecumenical/interfaith dialogue and even worship, they will become a threat to public order in our global society.”

In fact, a strong theme throughout the article was KEEPING one’s own faith and culture, while trying to understand another’s.  But I guess that is why we are extremely irrelevant today.  We have bowed out of any conversation with those that we disagree with.

Here are some of the highlights in the article

“(Photo: Rick Warren gets tested for HIV to promote AIDS awareness. Warren ignores the fact that the “gay” bathhouses that run rampant in his home state are a primary source of HIV infection as well as the spread of over 30 other venereal diseases. Charity begins at home, Rick. How about a Saddleback picket outside one of those places? )”

“You give me a pentagram and I’ll hand over my cross. Then we’ll have world peace, right?”

““Global Strategist” and apostasy enthusiast Rick Warren was at Georgetown University yesterday and declared that “faith-based organizations” are the missing link to solving the world’s problems. Wiccans apparently would qualify. They do, after all, have faith.”

I have been trying to figure out how to solve the aids crisis… and there is the answer.  Picket all the gay hangout!  Isn’t there a website and organization devoted to doing that?  Maybe they could get around to doing it after Heath Ledger’s funeral.

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I am going to believe the best, and say that the General Editor at CRN is not as ignorant as this article seems to show. For the last time, when Rick Warren said, “the future of the world is not secularism, it’s religious pluralism”, we was not advocating for one global religion. He was simply stating the facts. Just like when I say, “the future of my friend with cancer appears to not be a long life, but an early death”, I am not advocating the ending of her life. I am simply stating where things are headed. So, I hope we do not see a plethora of posts about how Warren is calling for one big global religion, or accepts all religions as true.

But, when you say things like

Richard Mouw, president of Fuller Theological Seminary (FTS), and his embracing of apostate Roman Catholicism as a Christian denomination it would appear Rick Warren is not the only one interested in a future of Global religious pluralism…And apparently this religious pluralism extends to non-Christian cults as well.

It does not make sense. If it was meant to be a jab at Warren, it was not very good. If it was meant to show that cults would be a part of a religiously plural society, you as simply stating the obvious.

AN UPDATED SIDE NOTE

I laughed so hard at this video. The music, the captions, the exclamation marks! Check it out

YouTube Preview Image
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twist, tangle, mix, mince, dice, kneed, jumble… all things done to Rick Warren’s words to create controversy. The latest

Rick Warren goes to the National Cathedral and declares that “the future of the world is not secularism, it’s religious pluralism.” Warren is also calling for mainline churches and evangelicals to come back together.

Can you say ecumenicalism or one-world religion?

No, you really can’t say that — at least about this quote. I would agree with Warren. The world is not necessarily becoming more and more secular. There is a rise in interest in spiritual things in modern culture. Both Kabbalah and Islam are on the rise. What we will probably end up with is a very religiously plual society. Does Warren support this, or think that it is a good thing? probably not. Does he think we need to to all get along? Sure.

I am beginning to think there is a a Warren obsession going on here.

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This is a very strange post from Ken Silva over at CRN.  Apparently, evangelist Brian Culver found an inappropriate bulletin from a girl back in his home town.  Was the MySpace bulletin inappropriate?  Very much so… but who does he blame?  The parents?  The school system?
The Seeker-Sensitive Church, of course!  So he takes to opportunity to air some rather public and strong rebuke to a fellow pastor that he obviously knows:

PASTOR! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. YOU HAVE IGNORED SIN TOO LONG IN YOUR CHURCH. YOU HAVE TURNED A BLIND EYE FOR THE SAKE OF NOT OFFENDING ANYONE. DO YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO NOT CONFRONT SIN? LITTLE GIRLS SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH PROMOTING SEX ON THE INTERNET. (THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME IT HAS HAPPENED IN YOUR CHURCH!) HOMOSEXUAL BOYS FIND NOTHING WRONG WITH THEIR LIFESTYLE. ADULTS THINK IT IS OKAY TO FLIP PEOPLE OFF AND JUST SAY, “I AM SO HAPPY THAT GOD FORGIVES ME WHEN I DO THAT!” WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY CHURCH DISCIPLINE IN YOUR CHURCH, YOU ARE OPENING THE DOOR FOR WEAK AND WIMPY CHRISTIANS TO LEAD THE FLOCK. YOU HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL BOY IN YOUR YOUTH GROUP AND ALL OF THE OTHER YOUTH ARE FINDING IT AS AN ACCEPTABLE THING.

he later says (yes, in all caps)

PASTORS! DO YOU NOW SEE WHY TELLING JOKES AND A BUNCH OF STORIES IS NOT THE WAY TO GO FOR A CHURCH SERVICE? DO YOU NOW SEE THAT GOD’S WORD IS TRUE AND IT IS A LAMP UNTO OUR FEET. IT WILL DIRECT OUR PATHS. WE DO NOT NEED MULTI-MEDIA AND HIP HOP MUSIC AND A LOT OF STARBUCKS COFFEE AND DONUTS. WHAT WE NEED IS GOOD OLD FASHIONED BIBLICAL PREACHING. PREACHING GOD’S LAW AND THE NEED TO REPENT OF SINS. WE NEED TO HEAR HOW TO PUT OUR TRUST AND FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. WE NEED TO HEAR THE NEED TO BE OBEDIENT TO GOD’S WORD. AND WE NEED TO SEE PASTOR’S WHO ACTUALLY DO ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!! THAT IS WHAT IS MISSING. OBEDIENT PASTORS!!!!!!!! THEY SAY THE RIGHT THINGS, BUT THEY DO NOT DO THE RIGHT THINGS. IF YOU HAVE SIN OPENLY DISPLAYED IN YOUR CHURCH BY A LEADER OR EVEN A MEMBER, YOU NEED TO PRACTICE CHURCH DISCIPLINE. THE IDEA IS TO SET THEM APART SO THAT THEY CAN REPENT OF THEIR SINS AND COME BACK INTO THE BODY. YOUR WORDS ARE NOT EDIFYING THE BODY IF YOUR ACTIONS ARE NOT CONSISTENT WITH SCRIPTURE. HOW MANY PEOPLE DID YOU WITNESS TO TODAY? ARE YOU FULFILLING THE GREAT COMMISSION. MOST PASTOR’S I KNOW, THE ANSWER IS A BIG AND TERRIBLE NO!

I am not too sure how he connected one girl’s personal MySpace bulletin with pastors telling jokes, drinking Starbucks and listing to hip-hop.  I am definately unclear as to how he could jump to the subject of homosexual teenagers being accepted in a youth group.   However, I find it sad that these grown men find it appropriate to give such anonymous personal information and rebuke on a very impersonal blog.  That’s up there with dumping your girlfriend via text-message.

I also find it amazing how these ODMs are able to connect practically anything with a seeker sensitive/emerging/purpose-driven church.  If you asked this girl if what she wrote was wrong, she would more than likely reply with “yes.”  But somehow all of this is not the parent’s fault, but the pastor’s (even though she know the biblical thing to do).  I am amazed at the length these men and women will go to publicly call out fellow ministers, air their dirty laundry, and then connect any sin in the congregation to their preaching/ministry methods.  If we went around exposing the sin in traditional churches, we might also be able to make some outlandish claims about the effectiveness of that method.

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