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	<title>Comments for Prophets, Priests and Poets</title>
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	<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info</link>
	<description>Engaging the depths of God and life in the Kingdom</description>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Chris L</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125242</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 15:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125242</guid>
		<description>Arthur,

Working with (and having worked with) folks who are living in the same-sex lifestyle, and keeping in mind society&#039;s &lt;i&gt;perception&lt;/i&gt; of the church&#039;s mistreatment of such individuals (a perception that is sometimes real, and not undeserved), we do live in a tension, where we cannot &quot;give in&quot; and call what God calls sin &quot;good&quot;, while at the same time not treating it as a worse sin that the ones most Christians deal with (and commit) in their own lives.

&quot;Not giving offense&quot; is not always wrong, particularly in public settings as opposed to small group or one-to-one settings, and if needlessly &quot;giving offense&quot; drives sinners away from the church and hardens their hearts (and ears) to the Gospel, then perhaps being careful in our language and slow to single this particular sin out in public is not unwise.  Jesus told the woman caught in adultery &quot;I do not condemn you&quot;, showing her grace, but followed with &quot;go and sin no more&quot;, recognizing that it is not OK to continue in that lifestyle.

I spoke with a family member last week, who goes to a medium-sized, quite conservative church.  He said that there was a lesbian couple who had attended services there for several years, and over time they came to realize their sin and that they needed to leave that life and come to Christ.  That church, which I grew up in, has never considered homosexual sex to be acceptable, but they have refrained from addressing it from the pulpit, though they did bring in a group that specifically ministers to people living with the temptations of same-sex attraction to speak to the church at one of their Sunday evening services.  By dealing with it as something that should break our heart and something that can be worked through, rather than conflating &quot;same-sex attraction&quot; (the temptation) and &quot;homosexual sex&quot; (the sin) under the banner of &quot;gay&quot; or &quot;homosexuality&quot;, this church has found a way to &quot;thread the needle&quot; between grace and truth.

Andy Stanley&#039;s church in Atlanta is striving to do the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arthur,</p>
<p>Working with (and having worked with) folks who are living in the same-sex lifestyle, and keeping in mind society&#8217;s <i>perception</i> of the church&#8217;s mistreatment of such individuals (a perception that is sometimes real, and not undeserved), we do live in a tension, where we cannot &#8220;give in&#8221; and call what God calls sin &#8220;good&#8221;, while at the same time not treating it as a worse sin that the ones most Christians deal with (and commit) in their own lives.</p>
<p>&#8220;Not giving offense&#8221; is not always wrong, particularly in public settings as opposed to small group or one-to-one settings, and if needlessly &#8220;giving offense&#8221; drives sinners away from the church and hardens their hearts (and ears) to the Gospel, then perhaps being careful in our language and slow to single this particular sin out in public is not unwise.  Jesus told the woman caught in adultery &#8220;I do not condemn you&#8221;, showing her grace, but followed with &#8220;go and sin no more&#8221;, recognizing that it is not OK to continue in that lifestyle.</p>
<p>I spoke with a family member last week, who goes to a medium-sized, quite conservative church.  He said that there was a lesbian couple who had attended services there for several years, and over time they came to realize their sin and that they needed to leave that life and come to Christ.  That church, which I grew up in, has never considered homosexual sex to be acceptable, but they have refrained from addressing it from the pulpit, though they did bring in a group that specifically ministers to people living with the temptations of same-sex attraction to speak to the church at one of their Sunday evening services.  By dealing with it as something that should break our heart and something that can be worked through, rather than conflating &#8220;same-sex attraction&#8221; (the temptation) and &#8220;homosexual sex&#8221; (the sin) under the banner of &#8220;gay&#8221; or &#8220;homosexuality&#8221;, this church has found a way to &#8220;thread the needle&#8221; between grace and truth.</p>
<p>Andy Stanley&#8217;s church in Atlanta is striving to do the same.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Arthur</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125241</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 14:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125241</guid>
		<description>On reflection I want to withdraw that last remark about how others would respond to a ban on speech about homosexuality. There&#039;s no need to be glib.
But I do know this is going to be a tough issue for the church to deal with as society gradually affirms homosexuality and calls it good.
It isn&#039;t the only sin and shouldn&#039;t be singled out as such. But to be afraid or so cautious about causing offense that we avoid the issue altogether is doing a disservice to those whom we are trying to help.
I think the real &quot;tension&quot; lies in not condemning any person including someone practising homosexuality, or adultery for that matter, and yet not giving that person the impression that it&#039;s good to continue that lifestyle.
In Canada the United Church allows homosexual ministers and the slightly more conservstive Anglican Church has &quot;blessing&quot; ceremonies for same sex marriages.
This has occurred gradually over the past 20 years or so and the the church in the US will not be immune to this trend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On reflection I want to withdraw that last remark about how others would respond to a ban on speech about homosexuality. There&#8217;s no need to be glib.<br />
But I do know this is going to be a tough issue for the church to deal with as society gradually affirms homosexuality and calls it good.<br />
It isn&#8217;t the only sin and shouldn&#8217;t be singled out as such. But to be afraid or so cautious about causing offense that we avoid the issue altogether is doing a disservice to those whom we are trying to help.<br />
I think the real &#8220;tension&#8221; lies in not condemning any person including someone practising homosexuality, or adultery for that matter, and yet not giving that person the impression that it&#8217;s good to continue that lifestyle.<br />
In Canada the United Church allows homosexual ministers and the slightly more conservstive Anglican Church has &#8220;blessing&#8221; ceremonies for same sex marriages.<br />
This has occurred gradually over the past 20 years or so and the the church in the US will not be immune to this trend.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Arthur</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125238</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 06:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125238</guid>
		<description>One day it may be considered a hate crime in America to say openly that homosexuality is a sin. It already is in Sweden and Canada to name only two countries.
Those who think it&#039;s amusing how
&quot;orthodox&quot; preachers &quot;hyperventilate
over anything gay&quot; should have no problem with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One day it may be considered a hate crime in America to say openly that homosexuality is a sin. It already is in Sweden and Canada to name only two countries.<br />
Those who think it&#8217;s amusing how<br />
&#8220;orthodox&#8221; preachers &#8220;hyperventilate<br />
over anything gay&#8221; should have no problem with that.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by neil</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125237</link>
		<dc:creator>neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 19:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125237</guid>
		<description>all the references to homosexuals in the new testament are lists... lists of what makes someone unrighteous or the like.

unfortunately, most christians do not see the items on the lists as equal sins.  so we do not find street-preachers protesting greed or gossip. (in fact, many i have seen revel in the latter)... but they love to &quot;share the gospel&quot; with gays,.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all the references to homosexuals in the new testament are lists&#8230; lists of what makes someone unrighteous or the like.</p>
<p>unfortunately, most christians do not see the items on the lists as equal sins.  so we do not find street-preachers protesting greed or gossip. (in fact, many i have seen revel in the latter)&#8230; but they love to &#8220;share the gospel&#8221; with gays,.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Jerry</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125215</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 19:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125215</guid>
		<description>Frankly, I&#039;m sick of talking about straight and gay when it comes to church. Can&#039;t we talk about Jesus for a while? Please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly, I&#8217;m sick of talking about straight and gay when it comes to church. Can&#8217;t we talk about Jesus for a while? Please?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Christian P</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125214</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 18:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125214</guid>
		<description>I think that gets at the heart of it and is an excellent question (set of questions). Even there, the issue is proving/showing/appearance of rightness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that gets at the heart of it and is an excellent question (set of questions). Even there, the issue is proving/showing/appearance of rightness.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125213</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125213</guid>
		<description>What if I appear wrong in a situation by showing grace? Will my pride allow that?
Or does it rear its ugly head to prove that I&#039;m right.

I&#039;m not trying to speak in circles here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if I appear wrong in a situation by showing grace? Will my pride allow that?<br />
Or does it rear its ugly head to prove that I&#8217;m right.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not trying to speak in circles here.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125212</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125212</guid>
		<description>Okay, you are right. :)

Obviously, a balance is required. But in my experience, when my emphasis is on being right and proving I&#039;m right, grace often takes a back seat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, you are right. <img src='http://prophets-priests-poets.info/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Obviously, a balance is required. But in my experience, when my emphasis is on being right and proving I&#8217;m right, grace often takes a back seat.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Christian P</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125211</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 13:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125211</guid>
		<description>Well, you can be right and still be gracious. Mercy triumphs over judgment, not over rightness. But I&#039;ll assume what you mean is that being gracious is more important than showing you are right, or possibly proving that you are right.

I&#039;ve attempted above to show that I am right, and I may be. The question is was I gracious about it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you can be right and still be gracious. Mercy triumphs over judgment, not over rightness. But I&#8217;ll assume what you mean is that being gracious is more important than showing you are right, or possibly proving that you are right.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve attempted above to show that I am right, and I may be. The question is was I gracious about it?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Andy Stanley, Grace, Truth and Homosexuality by Nathanael</title>
		<link>http://prophets-priests-poets.info/2012/05/15/andy-stanley-grace-truth-and-homosexuality/comment-page-1/#comment-125209</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathanael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 12:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prophets-priests-poets.info/?p=5368#comment-125209</guid>
		<description>Being gracious is far more important than being right . . . in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being gracious is far more important than being right . . . in my opinion.</p>
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