Mark Driscoll.

Well, that should be enough fire up this thread. Look, I think the problem is that Mark Driscoll’s church is called Mars Hill. That’s probably it. GBA. (Sex.)

What amuses me about this and this and this is the word ‘demand’ in the first link. Here’s the quote:

Because Driscoll is causing harm, I and Cathy Mickels and Deborah Dombrowski and any other women who would like to join us, are speaking out. I am demanding a response from men like Dr. Erwin Lutzer who has refused to come out against this and who will be speaking with Driscoll at an upcoming conference. You can reach Dr. Lutzer through his assistant named Lori at Moody Church. The number is [removed] or [removed]. Here is a list of speakers who will be further legitimizing instead of rebuking Mr. Driscoll. [My edits & emphasis]

Ladies, ladies, ladies. You ‘demand‘ a response? Seriously. On what grounds? (Hint, you don’t have to go to the ‘conference’.) At what point has Dr Erwin Lutzer suggested that he is accountable to you? Demand?

I’m sorry, I’m choking on the word ‘demand.’ My goodness these ADM’s like to demand. Here’s a demand of my own: I demand that Ken Silva post his picture online for everyone to see and unless he does I will continue to believe he is a fictional character. Demand! Bwwaaahhahahahaha! Demand. (Sex!)

I’m also amused by this quote:

Mark Driscoll should be shunned by decent people everywhere. There are Mormons and certainly Muslims who have more of a sense of decency and propriety in sexual matters than he does. There is a filthiness about this man that evokes a strong desire for a disinfecting bath after watching him. This is not the spirit of Christ. It is the spirit of the age.

So now, as it was pointed out by someone wiser than I: “Anyone else find it hilarious that she looks to Mormons and Muslims to show us the proper way to go, and then says that its the “spirit of the age”.” (Sex) “Shunned”? What are we now, pilgrims? Are we living in Jamestown? Demand! I demand you ladies out there start wearing really long and thick dresses again; and stay quiet at church. (Sex.)

Yes, I do. Demand? (Sex)

**ALERT** With all due respect to the sexually uninformed: If you don’t like Mark Driscoll, and you don’t like the words he uses, here is a very simple exercise for you: Turn it off. Don’t click the link. Close your ears. Turn the channel. I mean, it’s not that difficult. Seriously. It is not that difficult. No one is forcing you to pay attention to Mark Driscoll. (Sex) **END ALERT**

And, concerning the last link, the letter from ‘Derek’, I have a question: Derek, if you think Driscoll is embarrassing the name of Christ because he talks about sex, do you think the author of SOL is doing any better for the name of Christ by continually tearing apart pastors over whom she has absolutely no authority whatsoever? Seriously, ‘Derek’, from the ‘Braidwood Bible Chapel’, can you show me where in the Bible it says that the author of Slice has a right to say what she is saying about pastors whose churches she does not belong to? Can you show me where she has a theological or moral obligation to make demands of anyone?? Did you read the rest of Ephesians 4-5 where it says we are to be kind to one another and forgiving, and compassionate? And what about that crazy part where it says we are to ‘get rid of all bitterness, rage, and anger, and brawling, and slander, and every form of malice.’ Do the Bibles at Braidwood Bible Chapel have those verses too? (Sex.)

Oooh, oooh, ‘Derek’, don’t forget that one that says this: “…walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant sacrifice to God.” Yes, brother ‘Derek’, those verses are in there too. Do you think that the author of Slice needs another letter from you today? (Sex.)

Time to grow up kids.

PS, I happen also to think that Driscoll’s sex sermons are pathetic and embarrassing. But I do the manly thing: I don’t listen to them.

Sex. Sex. Sex. Sex. Sex. Sex. (Just want to make sure we get picked up by a whole mess of porn sites.)

Here’s a link to a series of 5 sermons hosted by Driscoll at Mars Hill featuring Dr DA Carson. I wonder if perhaps the author of Slice should demand Dr Carson no longer speak at Mars Hill in Seattle? Maybe we should start suspecting Dr Carson too…

***Just having a little fun.****

(sort of: see: He said: Love One Another)

cf., Luke 23:22-24

Tags: demands, Humor, Mark Driscoll, preachers, Sex

Friends,

I only have time for a short post on this, so I need to get straight to the point. Read on only if you have courage as I am a bit testy this morning. I know we have hashed and re-hashed this issue over Granger, but I have a different perspective to lend: that of the ‘pastor.’

I haven’t followed the ‘Granger is Full of Heretics’ story too closely, and I am relatively new to the ways in which certain ADM (’Actual Damnation Ministries’) work, so I’ll need just a bit of help here.

First, SOL links to this story with this title: Who’s to Blame for the Granger Debacle? The author of Slice writes:

When over half of your congregation doesn’t believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation, who is to blame? When nearly that same amount doesn’t believe the Bible is authoritative, where does the fault lie? Is it the fault of the pastor? The elder board? The small group leaders? The architects of the building? The local utilities? The house band?

Second, this is actually a link back to a blog I am starting to dislike more and more, despite the author’s claim to not be an ODM, (My) Truth Matters. The author writes:

Who is the shepherd of the local church? Who is responsible to “feed and guard the sheep”? Listen to how Mark Beeson takes no responsibility and blames the people and then describes the “changes” that will be made.

Third, here’s where it gets to the point. So, Granger church (of which I know very, very little) does a little survey and concludes that there are some things wrong or at least concludes some things that need to be addressed. Then they start addressing these issues, but only after making the results of the survey public knowledge, and thereby setting up the ADM’s for at least three days worth of posts and ’see I told you so’s’. So, if I understand this correctly, and follow the logic and work habits of the ADM’s: 1. Criticize a church with whose theology and practice you disagree. 2. Make certain you publish all their flaws publicly for all to read.  (3. Said church does a survey which concludes there are, yes, problems, that need to be addressed. [Would that more churches had such courage. Would that more ADM's had such courage.] ) 4. Publish new articles criticizing the Church for agreeing with what you were saying. 5. Publish more articles that go out of their way to assign blame. Continually harp on the ‘pastor’ or ‘leadership’ of said church in an effort to prove oneself right and to show massive prophetic powers to constituents and contributors. 6. Start the whole process over again when said church makes changes that you don’t think ‘go far enough.’

Fourth, the blame game…hmmm…where I have heard that before? Oh, yes: “Was it you?…It was the woman….It was the serpent…It was…uh…it was the, uh…Nixon…Clinton…” At some point the blame becomes pointless. If you are an ADM/ODM please tell all of us why you give a damn (sorry) who is to blame for this? WE ARE SINNERS! We will do the wrong thing and make wrong choices. The issue here is not that they found something wrong, but that they had to courage to admit it in the first place. I could survey the entire world and find that 98% people don’t believe Jesus is exclusively the way to salvation. Granger found the problem…why do you care who is to blame? Have you nothing better to do with your pathetic dreary graceless blogs? If they have found the problem, if they are working at fixing it, why do you care? How does what they do affect your comfortable lives behind keyboards and microphones?

Fifth, the gist here is about the role of the preacher in the church. One the one hand, I want to respond, “You think it is the job of the preacher because you have a terrible misunderstanding of the role of the preacher/evangelist/pastor.” ”Our culture tells us a great deal about ‘the minister,’ and much of what it says is inaccurate. It has presented an image of how he should look, what his job is, how he is to act, what he is supposed to in times of illness and death, upon whom he is supposed to call and how often and for what occasions, and even what his family should be like. ‘The ministry’–that vocation in which one is overwhelmed with meetings and a myriad of tasks, torn by conflicting expectations, molded by centuries-old traditions of the pastor-priest–seems impossible to increasing numbers of candidates who sincerely yearn to serve God.” (Joe Ellis, The Church on Purpose, 111 (Standard Publishing, 1982)

You want to know why we are ‘losing the battle for America’? It’s because the people who sit in the pews and at their computer work-stations blogging don’t have any idea what is going on in the life of the typical American pastor and because people like ADM/ODM’s scare the hell into young people who want to go into ministry so they can PREACH. But thanks to a culture of feeders, preachers cannot focus on what matters (ministry of the Word and prayer, Acts 6) because we have to all sort of other stupid things like go to meetings, visit this person or that, hand all the admin…blah…blah…blah…It is lazy parishioners…lazy Christians…people who won’t carry one another’s burdens, people who won’t feed one another, people who won’t care for one another…that are to blame. It’s just too easy to blame the man or woman upfront isn’t it? Takes all the burden off of you, right?

On the other hand, I want to say, “Those who can, preach; those who cannot criticize or blog.”

If you sense a bit of anger here, please do. If you are offended by my use of the word ‘damn’ or ‘hell’, tough. I’m tired of these people who have nothing better to do but sit around and assign blame. I’ll tell you what: I’ll take the blame for Granger having the problems they do. Maybe now the AMD’s will shut up about it.

jerry

PS-”To this day the Biblical role of the church member has not been substantially reclaimed. Christians, by and large, do not demonstrate a clear awareness of the demand for serious, even radical, commitment. They tend to be pale shadows of the dynamic, Spirit-filled world-changers the New Testament describes. The primary doers–those responsible for getting Christ’s work done–remain the salaried ministers. Many of the church’s members continue to be observers of ministry, perpetuating a platform-audience relationship.” (Joe Ellis, ibid., 112) Well said.

Tags: Granger, parishioner whining, pastors, pew-sitters, preachers, SOL, Truth Matters